Year 12s: what will be the first way you research your future options? >>

Similarities between Brexit and the 2016 US Presidential election.

Scroll to see replies

I don't see how what I said indicated I'm in favour of anything in particular, except Bernie. What exactly do you think "big government" means anyway?

Because in my personal experience, it just ends up meaning the state being directly involved in something outside the often arbitrary areas the person using the term thinks the state should be involved in.

Bernie wanted bigger government, bernies policies would mean more government spending, more government employees and the government taking more off its citizens.

Are you pro-Bernie or just anyone but the other 2?

Reply 21

Kiritsugu

Original post by SHallowvale

Er, I've said he is Islamophobic as what he has campaigned for is, by definition, Islamophobic. He has supported a ban on Muslim immigration. You can sugar coat that with the word ''temporary'' and change ''Muslims'' to ''anyone who comes from a country with a proven history of terrorism'' but it's still what he said.

I say that the papers were overwhelmingly in favour of Brexit because that is a demonstrable fact. It's not just some opinion. Papers like the Sun, The Daily Mail, The Daily Telegraph, The Sunday Times, etc, were all in favour of Brexit. The scope of Leave supporting newspapers exceeded that of those supporting Remain.

Okay I might be wrong about what I'm about to say but.... Who cares about what the "papers" think - they must be the views of people, or else, what the hell are they worth? So assuming they do indeed represent the views of the people, it wasn't a "hard brexit" so just because there were more newspapers favouring brexit, and keep in mind you also need to consider the reason when saying such a thing else we can't talk about the significance of the statistic, that doesn't represent the views of the people. Say that 90% of news corporations supported brexit, only 52% of people supported brexit.

Okay about Trump being Islamophobic, he probably was being that (and probably still is - he seems to lack a certain human decency). It wasn't right of him to say that. He kind of is sugar coating it, but he's not entirely wrong in saying what he said in my opinion. The problem arises when you stop every single one because of a few bad ones. So yeah, he shouldn't have said that and he's been saying bad stuff like that about other countries too. But extremists commiting crimes do need to be stopped, regardless of their religion or whatever.

Reply 22

Kiritsugu

Original post by joecphillips

Anyone can tell that Bernie is a good man. I don't agree with those views of his above that you've stated because I believe US people should be given more autonomy with increased help from Governments and enforce better and fairer rules for all. I don't think more government employees etc. is a bad thing necessarily. Things just need to be managed properly, and that's a very hard thing to do.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 23

Joep95

Original post by Kiritsugu

I'm not saying Bernie isn't a good man, I was replying to an anarchist who supported Bernie as I do not know how those 2 things go together

Reply 24

username2585877

Original post by Dodgypirate

4) Anti-establishment movement seen as "racist", "sexist", "xenophobic", "Islamophobic", et al those buzzwords.

They’re seen as that because mainstream Leave campaigners, as well as Trump are/were pretty much all of those names.

To clarify, I supported leave but their is no doubt that the mainstream campaigns were bigoted.

Reply 25

username2585877

Original post by joecphillips

I wouldn’t mind bigger government, especially when it’s for the common good. I will willingly give up 30%+ of my income if it means the poorest in society are cared for.

Reply 26

Joep95

Original post by frankielogue

I wouldn’t mind bigger government, especially when it’s for the common good. I will willingly give up 30%+ of my income if it means the poorest in society are cared for.

Some people would prefer that some wouldn't, but what I don't understand is anarchists wanting bigger government

Reply 27

username2585877

Original post by joecphillips

Some people would prefer that some wouldn't, but what I don't understand is anarchists wanting bigger government

A lot of anarchists, especially ancoms, want state socialism or keynesian economics as a way to remove the economic hierarchy, before removing the supposed state hierarchy. I guess their way to do it would be the most stable.

Reply 28

Iridocyclitis

Brexit is a concept/idea. Trump is a person. Totally different.

Reply 29

Dodgypirate

Original post by Iridocyclitis

Brexit is a concept/idea. Trump is a person. Totally different.

Trump is part of a larger movement.

Reply 30

Think People

Politics is a joke. Just to keep the masses buisy like me and you.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Trump is a Puta!!

Original post by nexttime

The only reason we're not building the wall is that there's a sea there already.

The sea ain't neva stopped em :noway:

Reply 33

Kiritsugu

Original post by 0to100

The sea ain't neva stopped em :noway:

That frownish laid back face of yours goes perfectly with that slang--ish quote in italics :smile:

Reply 34

Bang Outta Order

Original post by Kiritsugu

That frownish laid back face of yours goes perfectly with that slang--ish quote in italics :smile:

Yehhhh

Reply 35

Jammy Duel

Original post by SHallowvale

4) Why do you put xenophobia and islamophobia in quotation marks? Trump's campaign is without a doubt xenophobic and islamophobic. Leave.EU also used highly xenophobic, and I'd also argue Islamophobic, marketing.

5) The media, particularly the papers, were overwhelming in favour of Brexit.

You can't really compare the US election to the referendum as the way you 'win' is different. It is possible for Trump to get a majority of the votes but not become the President. This would depend on how the votes are distributed across the states.

They really weren't. Remain:

Leave

Although that's only really print MSM, the likes of the BBC were also more behind Remain than leave

Reply 36

Made in the USA

There are certainly a lot of similarities

Just like Brexit, everyone opposing the media's view is a racist, a sexist or a xenophobe. But no discussion of actual policy.

Reply 37

anarchism101

Original post by Jammy Duel

They really weren't. Remain:

Leave

Except 'Farmer's Weekly' is not remotely equivalent to the Telegraph. In terms of daily national papers in your list, there are roughly equal numbers on either side.

More to the point, as the study I posted earlier points out, there were substantially more articles in favour of Leave than Remain.

Although that's only really print MSM, the likes of the BBC were also more behind Remain than leave

Depends how you look at it. The BBC staff were generally pro-Remain, yes. But de facto bias is about more than that, it's about how stories and debates are framed and presented. Remain campaigners often complained that the BBC and other news programmes were simply presenting a claim and counter-claim framing, without giving any analysis into the validity of the competing claims.

Reply 38

anarchism101

Original post by joecphillips

Bernie wanted bigger government, bernies policies would mean more government spending, more government employees and the government taking more off its citizens.

A couple of things:

i) There's no automatic link between higher taxes/spending and more civil servants needed to carry it out. The number of the latter required is primarily determined by the complexity of the job rather than the sheer scale of it. Complicated tax codes with small rates are generally more difficult to collect than simple ones with high rates.

ii) You're talking about crude measures of direct involvement rather than overall control and power. To break it down to a more fundamental principle, anarchists reject the idea, particularly popular on the economic right, that the market economy and the state are in some way antagonistic or opposed. Instead, we see them as fundamentally interlocked and symbiotic. The state provides the framework required for the market economy to function. So I'm happy to support Bernie tinkering with that to a more desirable end.

Are you pro-Bernie or just anyone but the other 2?

Well, there's plenty I don't agree with him on, and I'm considerably to the left of him. But I like him, and he's one of the few major American politicians who I actually do like and would genuinely support, rather than just vaguely prefer as a lesser evil.