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The I-SOC (Islamic Society) XIII
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Original post by Tawheed
Chapter 66 – The fairness and the justice
One does not prevent another man from a forward position or move backward except after knowing that his own moving forward is what Allah (azwj)Wants
A Muslim does not blame his Muslim brethren for a shortcoming until he removes such shortcoming from his own self; as soon one removes one defect from his soul another shortcoming and defect (becomes) known to him.
To occupied with correcting one’s own self is a full time occupation (to correct himself rather than finding faults with others)’.
عدة من أصحابنا ، عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد ، عن إسماعيل بن مهران ، عن عثمان بن جبلة ، عن أبي جعفر عليه*السلام قال قال رسول الله صلى*الله*عليه*وآلهثلاث خصال من كن فيه أو واحدة منهن كان في ظل عرش الله يوم لا ظل إلا ظله رجل أعطى الناسمن نفسه ما هو سائلهم ورجل لم يقدم رجلا ولم يؤخر رجلا حتى يعلم أن ذلك لله رضا ورجل لم يعب أخاه المسلم بعيب حتى ينفي ذلك العيب عن نفسه فإنه لا ينفي منها عيبا إلا بدا له عيب وكفى بالمرء شغلا بنفسه عن الناس
Kitab Al Kafi
الإنصاف والعدل
The Messenger of Allah s.a.w said: ‘Three characteristics, the one who has these in him, or even one of these, he would be in the Shade of the Throne of Allah (azwj)j on the Day when nothing will have the Shade (protection from the heat) – One does not prevent another man from a forward position or move backward except after knowing that his own moving forward is what Allah (azwj)Wants
A Muslim does not blame his Muslim brethren for a shortcoming until he removes such shortcoming from his own self; as soon one removes one defect from his soul another shortcoming and defect (becomes) known to him.
To occupied with correcting one’s own self is a full time occupation (to correct himself rather than finding faults with others)’.
عدة من أصحابنا ، عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد ، عن إسماعيل بن مهران ، عن عثمان بن جبلة ، عن أبي جعفر عليه*السلام قال قال رسول الله صلى*الله*عليه*وآلهثلاث خصال من كن فيه أو واحدة منهن كان في ظل عرش الله يوم لا ظل إلا ظله رجل أعطى الناسمن نفسه ما هو سائلهم ورجل لم يقدم رجلا ولم يؤخر رجلا حتى يعلم أن ذلك لله رضا ورجل لم يعب أخاه المسلم بعيب حتى ينفي ذلك العيب عن نفسه فإنه لا ينفي منها عيبا إلا بدا له عيب وكفى بالمرء شغلا بنفسه عن الناس
Kitab Al Kafi
The thing that really confuses me further with shia hadiths and generally throws a wrench in the whole jarh wa ta'dil/ i'lm al rijaal and authenticity of hadiths is the:
عدة من أصحابنا
narrated from our group/friends.
And even this:
عمن أخبره
Narrated from whoever told him.
Who are these people? who is this person that told him? How many people is this friends list? Their order?.......etc
Attributing the chain of narration to unknowns and attributing to ''whoever told him'' hardly gives me let alone shias confidence in these narrations and the methodology used to authenticate them.
Original post by Al-farhan
The thing that really confuses me further with shia hadiths and generally throws a wrench in the whole jarh wa ta'dil/ i'lm al rijaal and authenticity of hadiths is the:
عدة من أصحابنا
narrated from our group/friends.
And even this:
عمن أخبره
Narrated from whoever told him.
Who are these people? who is this person that told him? How many people is this friends list? Their order?.......etc
Attributing the chain of narration to unknowns and attributing to ''whoever told him'' hardly gives me let alone shias confidence in these narrations and the methodology used to authenticate them.
عدة من أصحابنا
narrated from our group/friends.
And even this:
عمن أخبره
Narrated from whoever told him.
Who are these people? who is this person that told him? How many people is this friends list? Their order?.......etc
Attributing the chain of narration to unknowns and attributing to ''whoever told him'' hardly gives me let alone shias confidence in these narrations and the methodology used to authenticate them.
What's ilm al rijaal?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by beautifulxxx
It is the branch of hadith sciences which deals with narrators and their authenticity, and whether to accept their narration or not.
Original post by Tawheed
To answer the second part of your question, while we do take narrations from companions, and accept a lot of what is in Bukhari, Muslim etc, we tend to emphasise the following chain of narrators to Rasulullah s.a.w:
1. Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s - A hadith narrated from him, to Rasullulah s.a.w is the strongest.
2. Hasan and Hussain ibn Ali a.s - a hadith narrated from them from Ali a.s is the strongest link to Ali a.s
4. Ali ibn Hussain a.s to his father, Hussain ibn Ali a.s - He was the great Grandson of Muhammed s.a.w, and recognised as a scholar of his time by both shia and sunni's.
5. Muhammed Al Baqir a.s - another highly revered scholar, and direct descendent of Muhammed s.a.w by both shia's and sunni's. Dhahabi reports an incident when Rasulullah s.a.w, asks jabir ibn Abdillah (radiyaullahu anhu) to send his salams to him. Since Jabir (r.a) lived a long time, he managed to do this according to reports.
6. Jaffer As Sadiq a.s - the son of Muhammed Al Baqir a.s, and highly revered by both shia's and sunni's.
So to give you an example, when fulan bin fulan, reports from fulan, that Jaffer as Sadiq a.s said : Rasulullah s.a.w said "
The chain of narrators is: Jaffer as Sadiq a.s, from his father [Al Baqir], from his father [Ali ibn Hussain], from his father [Hussain ibn Ali a.s/Hasan ibn Ali a.s, the grandchildren of Rasulullah and the leaders of the youths of paradise], from Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, from Rasullulah s.a.w].
When you have narrations where Rasullulah s.a.w is not explicitly mentioned, for example, in a fiqh law, or anything of any subject matter, for example:
Narrated Ali ibn Hussain: " x is harram, and y is considered makruh".
Even if it does not explicitly state that 'Rasullulah said 'x is harram and y is makruh', the original source of this is from Rasulullah s.a.w.
The chain is Ali ibn Hussain , from his father, Hussain ibn Ali a.s [and / to Hasan Ibn Ali a.s], from Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, from Rasulullah s.a.w So ultimately, every ahadith goes back to Rasullah s.a.w, from either the companions, or, [as we prefer it], from his Ahlulbayt asws, who we believe preserved his true sunnah.
Rasulullah s.a.w had stated he left behind two weighty things, The Quran, and his Ahlulbayt. We follow the Ahlulbayt asws to get to the Sunnah of Muhammed s.a.w, since we believe, by the will and ordination of Allah azwj, it was them upon whom the task of preserving his sunnah was placed.
Remember, the big dispute and the reason why Islam has split into so many groups is not because we don't recognise the need to follow the Sunnah of Muhammed s.a.w, but rather, where to get his sunnah from. Thus, we believe, Rasulullah s.a.w clearly hi-lighted from who we can obtain the purest stream , the purest form of his sunnah - his Ahlulbayt.
1. Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s - A hadith narrated from him, to Rasullulah s.a.w is the strongest.
2. Hasan and Hussain ibn Ali a.s - a hadith narrated from them from Ali a.s is the strongest link to Ali a.s
4. Ali ibn Hussain a.s to his father, Hussain ibn Ali a.s - He was the great Grandson of Muhammed s.a.w, and recognised as a scholar of his time by both shia and sunni's.
5. Muhammed Al Baqir a.s - another highly revered scholar, and direct descendent of Muhammed s.a.w by both shia's and sunni's. Dhahabi reports an incident when Rasulullah s.a.w, asks jabir ibn Abdillah (radiyaullahu anhu) to send his salams to him. Since Jabir (r.a) lived a long time, he managed to do this according to reports.
6. Jaffer As Sadiq a.s - the son of Muhammed Al Baqir a.s, and highly revered by both shia's and sunni's.
So to give you an example, when fulan bin fulan, reports from fulan, that Jaffer as Sadiq a.s said : Rasulullah s.a.w said "
The chain of narrators is: Jaffer as Sadiq a.s, from his father [Al Baqir], from his father [Ali ibn Hussain], from his father [Hussain ibn Ali a.s/Hasan ibn Ali a.s, the grandchildren of Rasulullah and the leaders of the youths of paradise], from Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, from Rasullulah s.a.w].
When you have narrations where Rasullulah s.a.w is not explicitly mentioned, for example, in a fiqh law, or anything of any subject matter, for example:
Narrated Ali ibn Hussain: " x is harram, and y is considered makruh".
Even if it does not explicitly state that 'Rasullulah said 'x is harram and y is makruh', the original source of this is from Rasulullah s.a.w.
The chain is Ali ibn Hussain , from his father, Hussain ibn Ali a.s [and / to Hasan Ibn Ali a.s], from Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, from Rasulullah s.a.w So ultimately, every ahadith goes back to Rasullah s.a.w, from either the companions, or, [as we prefer it], from his Ahlulbayt asws, who we believe preserved his true sunnah.
Rasulullah s.a.w had stated he left behind two weighty things, The Quran, and his Ahlulbayt. We follow the Ahlulbayt asws to get to the Sunnah of Muhammed s.a.w, since we believe, by the will and ordination of Allah azwj, it was them upon whom the task of preserving his sunnah was placed.
Remember, the big dispute and the reason why Islam has split into so many groups is not because we don't recognise the need to follow the Sunnah of Muhammed s.a.w, but rather, where to get his sunnah from. Thus, we believe, Rasulullah s.a.w clearly hi-lighted from who we can obtain the purest stream , the purest form of his sunnah - his Ahlulbayt.
JazakAllahu khair for your response.
The final point you made is interesting, so you guys favour the Quran and narrations from ahlul bait...which source states this?
And also of course his family members they are special, but why the 'purest'?
If you prefer to reply via pm that's fine, I don't want to spam the isoc or anything.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Al-farhan
It is the branch of hadith sciences which deals with narrators and their authenticity, and whether to accept their narration or not.
Okay barakAllahu feek.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Al-farhan
The thing that really confuses me further with shia hadiths and generally throws a wrench in the whole jarh wa ta'dil/ i'lm al rijaal and authenticity of hadiths is the:
عدة من أصحابنا
narrated from our group/friends.
And even this:
عمن أخبره
Narrated from whoever told him.
عدة من أصحابنا
narrated from our group/friends.
And even this:
عمن أخبره
Narrated from whoever told him.
This comes from a misunderstanding in terms of what has been stated, i will explain brother:
In our ilm al rijal, if you narrate something, from someone you do not name and have an unconnected chain therefore , you can not claim to have a good chain of trustworthy individuals. This is not what is occurring here however. It is not a case of merely narrating from random people. When it is mentioned 'narrated from our group of friends', Al Kulayni for sake of brevity, employed the following:
Whenever you read in Usul Kafi, that "a group of our associates narrated from Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn Isa", then the group here means the following five persons:
1.Abu Ja'far Muhammad Ibn Yahya al-Attar al-Qummi
2.Ali Ibn Musa Ibn Ja'far al-Kamandani
3.Abu Sulayman Dawud Ibn Kawrah al-Qummi
4.Abu Ali Ahmad Ibn Idris Ibn Ahmad al-Ash'ari al-Qummi
5.Abul Hasan Ali Ibn Ibrahim Ibn Hashim al-Qummi.
II. Whenever you read in Usul Kafi, that "a group of our associates narrated from Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn Khalid al-Barqi", then the group here means the following four persons:
1.Abul Hasan Ali Ibn Ibrahim Ibn Hashim al-Qummi
2.Muhammad Ibn Abdillah Ibn Udhaynah
3.Ahmad Ibn Abillah Ibn Umayyah
4. Ali Ibn al-Husain al-Sa'd Abadi.
III. Whenever you read in Usul Kafi, that "a group of our associates narrated from Sahl Ibn Ziyad", then the group here means the following four persons:
1. Abul Hasan Ali Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ibrahim Ibn Aban al-Razi, who is known as Allan al-Kulaini
2. Abul Husain Muhammad Ibn Abdillah Ja'far Ibn Muhammad Ibn Awn al- Asadi al-Kufi, resident of ray.
3. Muhammad Ibn al-Husain Ibn Farrukh al-Saffar al-Qummi 4. Muhammad Ibn Aqil al-Kulaini.
IV.
Whenever you read in Usul Kafi, that "a group of our associates narrated from Ja'far Ibn Muhammad who narrated from al-Hasan Ibn Ali Ibn al-Faddal", then the group here consists of the following person:
1. Abu Abdillah al-Husain Ibn Muhammad Ibn Imran Ibn Abi Bakr al- Ash'ari al-Qummi.
All of these narrators in each of these four categories mentioned are generally the teachers and Shaykhs of Kulayni - whom he would narrate a certain Hadith from all at the same time and they would be living and narrating a certain Hadith that Kulayni takes from them during the same time period and not necessarily succeed one another in the chain(i.e making the longer).
The reason that Kulayni does not mention all of them in the chain every time for each Hadith is so that he doesn't make it longer and to avoid unnecessary repetitions - hence the resorting to this abridgement in the chain.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by beautifulxxx
JazakAllahu khair for your response.
The final point you made is interesting, so you guys favour the Quran and narrations from ahlul bait...which source states this?
And also of course his family members they are special, but why the 'purest'?
If you prefer to reply via pm that's fine, I don't want to spam the isoc or anything.
Posted from TSR Mobile
The final point you made is interesting, so you guys favour the Quran and narrations from ahlul bait...which source states this?
And also of course his family members they are special, but why the 'purest'?
If you prefer to reply via pm that's fine, I don't want to spam the isoc or anything.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I will reply tommorow inshAllah, just have bit of coursework to finish. All great questions.
I am glad you have chosen to ask about the shia madhab from a shia muslim. It helps avoid bias, and people who are not shia giving you a distorted version.
I too, ensure when i wish to understand about various sunni madhabs, to ask reliable people who follow such a madhab.
Original post by IdeasForLife
http://www.islam21c.com/islamic-thought/10-jewels-in-seeking-knowledge/
Very beneficial JZK for sharing.
Original post by ak143244
Yeah soo true 
How are you sooo.. what's the word.. like nice and wise? I don't know how to explain it.
How are you sooo.. what's the word.. like nice and wise? I don't know how to explain it.
May Allah forgive me. Jzk for the nice words towards me. I hope your words are true or I give it that much justice insha'Allah. I feel that if one of the factors and the most important is Islam. Islam has given us so much, so I strive to give Islam justice, just like every Muslim should insha'Allah. However, I am no where near as good as I would like to be and of course I struggle too.But I would like to think I try my best
If I was to tell you how much I love Islam and how it makes me a better person then you will probs get bored. Original post by YouHaveProblems
It wasn't a formal video based on this topic. It was a Q&A session (normal youtube one) and it was from Musa Adnan (Adnan Rashid's Son) and he said it. I will try find the link and send it.
Oh right. Yeah it is quite strange to me, I have never heard of this before. Insha'Allah if you do then I would like to see it. But if you don't dw.
Original post by h333
Very beneficial JZK for sharing.
May Allah forgive me. Jzk for the nice words towards me. I hope your words are true or I give it that much justice insha'Allah. I feel that if one of the factors and the most important is Islam. Islam has given us so much, so I strive to give Islam justice, just like every Muslim should insha'Allah. However, I am no where near as good as I would like to be and of course I struggle too.But I would like to think I try my best If I was to tell you how much I love Islam and how it makes me a better person then you will probs get bored.
Oh right. Yeah it is quite strange to me, I have never heard of this before. Insha'Allah if you do then I would like to see it. But if you don't dw.
May Allah forgive me. Jzk for the nice words towards me. I hope your words are true or I give it that much justice insha'Allah. I feel that if one of the factors and the most important is Islam. Islam has given us so much, so I strive to give Islam justice, just like every Muslim should insha'Allah. However, I am no where near as good as I would like to be and of course I struggle too.But I would like to think I try my best
If I was to tell you how much I love Islam and how it makes me a better person then you will probs get bored. Oh right. Yeah it is quite strange to me, I have never heard of this before. Insha'Allah if you do then I would like to see it. But if you don't dw.
Haha okay
Very rare to find someone who has so much 'passion' for our religion, Islam nowadays.
Going sleep now.
Have a great day h333!
Kudafiz
Original post by h333
Oh right. Yeah it is quite strange to me, I have never heard of this before. Insha'Allah if you do then I would like to see it. But if you don't dw.
Oh right. Yeah it is quite strange to me, I have never heard of this before. Insha'Allah if you do then I would like to see it. But if you don't dw.
Here; https://youtu.be/HS9UBA_0TPY?t=639 that's what i was talking about. I paraphrased in the first quote which was kind of an implication of what he said, that's how i perceived it anyway.
Ohhh wait i may have misunderstood. He said more than like even without the headscarf, is he saying "more than without the headscarf" or saying "more than... like even without the headscarf" as an example? if it's the second one then why wouldn't you be able to see your wife with the headscarf though? and either way that means the companions still wanted to see without the headscarf
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by ak143244
Haha okay
Very rare to find someone who has so much 'passion' for our religion, Islam nowadays.
Going sleep now.
Have a great day h333!
Kudafiz
Very rare to find someone who has so much 'passion' for our religion, Islam nowadays.
Going sleep now.
Have a great day h333!
Kudafiz
Jzk. Oh there are many on here Alhamdulillah. I just feel at home when I come on ISOC
Np.
Well I did have a good day Alhamdulillah
May Allah bless you. Ameen.
Salaam/khuda hafiz
Why is it that loads of people just talk about marriage all the time, what's the big fuss over it?
Original post by YouHaveProblems
Here; https://youtu.be/HS9UBA_0TPY?t=639 that's what i was talking about. I paraphrased in the first quote which was kind of an implication of what he said, that's how i perceived it anyway.
Ohhh wait i may have misunderstood. He said more than like even without the headscarf, is he saying "more than without the headscarf" or saying "more than... like even without the headscarf" as an example? if it's the second one then why wouldn't you be able to see your wife with the headscarf though? and either way that means the companions still wanted to see without the headscarf
Ohhh wait i may have misunderstood. He said more than like even without the headscarf, is he saying "more than without the headscarf" or saying "more than... like even without the headscarf" as an example? if it's the second one then why wouldn't you be able to see your wife with the headscarf though? and either way that means the companions still wanted to see without the headscarf
Oh I see. I watched it and yes you understood right, it does not mean they did see or gave permission to see them without hijab. It just simply puts significance to actually see them before accepting marriage. It is like saying "Why would you refuse to see them at all, despite it being permissible, when most would want to see even more eg without hijab?"
Sorry if that did not make sense. He didn't mean they did but it is like a desire, so you should take what is permissible and appreciate it because what if seeing was not even permissible.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by h333
Oh I see. I watched it and yes you understood right, it does not mean they did see or gave permission to see them without hijab. It just simply puts significance to actually see them before accepting marriage, but not literally means that. It is like saying "Why would you refuse to see them at all, despite it being permissible, when most would want to see even more eg without hijab?"
Sorry if that did not make sense. He didn't mean they did but it is like a desire, so you should take what is permissible and appreciate it because what if seeing was not even permissible.
Sorry if that did not make sense. He didn't mean they did but it is like a desire, so you should take what is permissible and appreciate it because what if seeing was not even permissible.
lol i don't understand what you said
Original post by YouHaveProblems
Why is it that loads of people just talk about marriage all the time, what's the big fuss over it?
As far as I know, does not happen often but may from time to time regarding some issues others may have or like during reminders. The whole marriage issue came up like only yesterday because I placed a question/concern.
Original post by YouHaveProblems
Why is it that loads of people just talk about marriage all the time, what's the big fuss over it?
It's just a human thing . Muslims want a person to love like anyone else. For that love to be halal, it's need to done via marriage. So many Muslims have marriage on their mind.
Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by h333
As far as I know, does not happen often but may from time to time regarding some issues others may have or like during reminders. The whole marriage issue came up like only yesterday because I placed a question/concern.
I wasn't just referring to this thread, i meant it's generally a major topic of discussion among so many people. Like i never even thought of marriage but then my friends talk about it loads. At this age i wouldn't have ever thought about marriage if you know what i mean, there are so many videos about it and they get loads of views and in Q&As there are so many questions about it. It's just funny.
And then also people who are married and talk about younger people saying ooh you going to get married etc asking them kinda questions
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by YouHaveProblems
lol i don't understand what you said
Lol sorry, I knew it was all over the place. Basically, as you said "more than... like even without the headscarf" as an example. They did not mean that yes go see them without headscarf, but just puts emphasis that you should just see them if you can so you know how they look (with it on).
You can't see them without hijab because you are still a non-mahram and the marriage may not even take place.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by h333
Lol sorry, I knew it was all over the place. Basically, as you said "more than... like even without the headscarf" as an example. They did not mean that yes go see them without headscarf, but just puts emphasis that you should just see them if you can so you know how they look.
You can't see them without hijab because you are still a non-mahram and the marriage may not even take place.
You can't see them without hijab because you are still a non-mahram and the marriage may not even take place.
What does it mean by saying you can see them though. Like why is that even a question? Why would anyone not look at their wife before marrying them? One of the conditions to look for is beauty right.
Original post by YouHaveProblems
What does it mean by saying you can see them though. Like why is that even a question? Why would anyone not look at their wife before marrying them? One of the conditions to look for is beauty right.
Because Islamically there is a certain dress code women in Islam have to observe. Many scholars are of the opinion that it is compulsory to cover our faces and hands as well as the rest of the body. So those scholars who hold such opinions say that prior to the marriage, it is permissible for the man to see the face, hands etc...
It's not a condition as such, although its fine and normal, the prophet pbuh mentioned four things that someone looks for in a spouse and stated that piety is the most significant, hence we should look for that above beauty.
Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 7 years ago)
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