What is Fat Acceptance and is it a legitimate movement?

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Reply 20

Reality Check

Original post by Foo.mp3

Logged into eBay.co.uk today to see this outrage :rofl:

Spoiler

Shouldn't that be

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 21

anosmianAcrimony

To a certain extent, I think it's legitimate - overweight people do get a lot of ridicule and prejudice for it. For those who are overweight mainly because of their genetics, ridicule is clearly inappropriate; for those who are overweight mainly because of their eating and exercise habits, ridicule doesn't help them change those habits and so is also inappropriate.

That's not to say that obesity isn't a serious problem that needs dealing with - but a culture that demonises the obese doesn't help anyone.

Reply 22

anosmianAcrimony

Original post by miser

While it's compassionate to treat all people with respect and dignity, you can't do that whilst at the same time lying to people. The unfortunate truths in this case are that overweight people are generally speaking less attractive than people in shape, and that there are health risks. It's not fat-shaming to talk plainly about facts. However, it's also not necessary to remind overweight people about these things constantly, and we should recognise that there are multiple factors that cause obesity, so it's generally unhelpful to be judgemental about it.

These things being said, if people want to be proud about being fat, then I'm okay with that, just as I could be proud about being an alcoholic or a lazy person - it's just a bit weird. But, if people want me to respect them for those things, I can't really do that because I believe them to be bad, and my words and behaviour will inevitably always reflect that view.

Taken in a vacuum, being proud of being fat doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, but as a response to a culture that wants them to be ashamed of it, I can entirely understand where it's coming from.

Reply 23

Reality Check

Original post by anosmianAcrimony

For those who are overweight mainly because of their genetics, ridicule is clearly inappropriate; .

The vast, vast majority of people are not overweight because of their 'genes'. They are overweight because they are in positive energy balance.

Blaming genetics is simple blame shifting - "it's not my problem I'm a fat greedy pig who can't control what I eat - IT'S MY GENES and thus I can't do anything about it'. It's the worst example of victimhood and doesn't in any way help them.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 24

username2303857

I'd just like to say, being fat ≠ being unhealthy. The same as being skinny ≠ being healthy. Some people eat when they are sad/anxious etc, other people drink or smoke. One shouldn't be punished just because the effects of doing so are more visible (Obviously there are other causes of being overweight) People who are fat know they are fat, they know its not entirely healthy, and most likely have tried to do something about it. Being strongly negative towards fat people leads to dangerous diets that make a person more unhealthy than they were to begin with.

Reply 25

anosmianAcrimony

Original post by Reality Check

I agree - in most cases obesity is the result of bad habit, not bad genetics. But as I go on to say, ridicule and prejudice doesn't help people ditch those bad habits either.

Reply 26

0907714

Because society is full of scum that like to bully other people to raise their self-esteem, so they trying to raise their own self-esteem as a response. It's not hard to figure it out. But most people are part of the problem because, well, society doesn't value honesty as dictated by corrupt people. Again its quite obvious when you realise it.

Who else goes here?

The problem is being a bit overweight is fine but the whole fat acceptance movement has been hijacked by people who aren't fat but morbidly obese. The 'beauty at any size' catchphrase is so wrong.

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Reply 29

Asolare

Need to find some way of justifying their weight I guess. It's completely dumb but you know, entitled to do whatever they want

Reply 30

Flowersong

Original post by Reality Check

The vast, vast majority of people are not overweight because of their 'genes'. They are overweight because they are in positive energy balance.

source? the two aren't remotely independent you know

Blaming genetics is simple blame shifting - "it's not my problem I'm a fat greedy pig who can't control what I eat - IT'S MY GENES and thus I can't do anything about it'. It's the worst example of victimhood and doesn't in any way help them.

well maybe it can help, because there is evidence in the medical literature that although dieting necessarily results in weight loss, it's probably not a sensible treatment to prescribe because most people fail to do it. advocating exercise and taking the focus away from weight and being fat demonstrably results in greater benefits to health

Reply 31

Reality Check

Original post by Flowersong

source? the two aren't remotely independent you know

well maybe it can help, because there is evidence in the medical literature that although dieting necessarily results in weight loss, it's probably not a sensible treatment to prescribe because most people fail to do it. advocating exercise and taking the focus away from weight and being fat demonstrably results in greater benefits to health

Bad science, flower. Where in earth did you get the idea that to solve obesity 'dieting is probably not a sensible treatment'?!

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 32

Flowersong

Original post by Reality Check

Bad science, flower. Where in earth did you get the idea that to solve obesity 'dieting is probably not a sensible treatment'?!

what's bad science? you haven't seen the research i'm talking about yet :holmes:

however i do believe i spoke too strongly - i meant there is evidence that it may not be the best approach from a clinical point of view, and at least one paper i've come across (possibly more, i'm not certain) found that advocating exercise and a healthy lifestyle was more effective in tackling obesity-related health problems that dieting and focusing on weight loss were. i can try and find them if you like, but i'm not biting until you commit! how do you know that 'the vast, vast majority of people are not overweight because of their 'genes' '?

Reply 33

Reality Check

Original post by Flowersong

what's bad science? you haven't seen the research i'm talking about yet :holmes:

The only effective weight loss solution is dieting, i.e. being in negative energy deficit. Exercise and a 'healthy lifestyle' can help prevent weight problems occurring, and can help in managing to prevent weight regain after weight loss, but there is no evidence, and there have been no serious studies which have advocated exercise without calorie restriction as an effective method of weight loss. Once obesity has developed, energy restriction in the form of dieting is the only treatment: bariatric surgery is 'dieting' by another name as it too achieves an energy deficit as eating less.

As for how do I know that the vast majority of people aren't overweight because of their genes - quite simply. Genes don't change very quickly. However, in the 1960s, about 1% of the male UK population was classed as obese. Today it's 25%. A simple 'genetic' explanation cannot account for an explosion in obesity rates in 50 years. It is the 'obesegenic' environment in which we live which accounts for it, and at the heart is consuming more energy than you expend. Whilst genes probably have an effect on the likelihood of developing obesity the cause is the same - too much energy dense food.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 34

Flowersong

Original post by Reality Check

As I stated in my original post, I'm not disputing the effectiveness of dieting as a means of achieving weight loss. I'm talking about paying attention to the risk factors associated with obesity themselves. The research I'm talking about found that a HAES-style approach resulted in significantly better improvements to health among the already obese than did dieting to lose weight.

I don't see why we shouldn't consider the possibility that having doctors prescribing 'eat less' may not be having the best impact on the obesity epidemic. It's perfectly common knowledge that most people are simply unable to maintain a diet, whether that be due to willpower, terrible science, bad education or even a magic thyroid. The proximate cause of that failure is besides the point!

As for how do I know that the vast majority of people aren't overweight because of their genes - quite simply. Genes don't change very quickly. However, in the 1960s, about 1% of the male UK population was classed as obese. Today it's 25%. A simple 'genetic' explanation cannot account for an explosion in obesity rates in 50 years. It is the 'obesegenic' environment in which we live which accounts for it, and at the heart is consuming more energy than you expend. Whilst genes probably have an effect on the likelihood of developing obesity the cause is the same - too much energy dense food.

I don't find this very convincing, and stating again the obvious fact that too much energy causes obesity doesn't mean there is no genetic component! I'm not proposing that genetic factors are the only contributors to obesity, or even that they are proximate causes. But we know full well that genes can have a large impact on self control, willpower, appetite and a whole host of other factors that are likely to contribute towards the problem - I think it would be amazing if genetics didn't play a significant role! It may well be that these factors are just far more important in times where food is in abundance, so I don't buy the 'it didn't happen in the past' line.

On a side note, where do you point the blame when some 5'1" females have the same appetite as 6'2" males? Precisely the same attention paid to diet could leave one morbidly obese and the other dangerously thin, whether or not that appetite is the result of genetics or previous lifestyle choices or childhood or whatever.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 35

the bear

eat less, exercise more.

Reply 36

$$TRUMP4PRESI$$

Its a form of political activism largely associated with feminism and attempts
to "promote a positive body image" ,even if you are fat as they claim being fat
is out of your hands and is determined by genetics and is therefore as bad as
racism or sexism. And according to them if you call someone out for being fat
it just worsens the situation as it damages self esteem and it will not motivate
someone to change there ways. Its controversial and many people claim that
people involved in this activism often just have bad habits or dislike exercise
rather than have eating disorders. VERY CONTROVERSIAL!

Reply 37

Maths is Life

Original post by HannaMarin

[video="youtube;WPMDCJrRpT8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPMDCJrRpT8[/video]

omfg I'm crying

Reply 38

Big Weiner

Fat people are lower than animals.

Reply 39

$$TRUMP4PRESI$$

Not really they are just feminist activists who claim people shouldn't make any
comment on someone's size, even for medical advice. It isn't legit because it is
dumb as you cant be healthy at "any size" as they claim and this kind of
ideology is damaging to impressionable young women as it could mean they
question the need to exercise and live a healthy lifestyle.