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Is anyone else disappointed by declining standards in spoken English in Britain?

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Accents are fine, but people really need to improve their spelling, syntax and vocabulary. Hitchens' "Arguably" should be mandatory reading in schools.

Reply 21

natchina

the degeneration of language is a symptom of the degeneration of society -- its happening in the arts. in architecture. in manners. in moral principles. in conventional discourse. in education.

society seems to be deconstructing itself on all levels.

as the society and language deconstructs, so follows thoughts. and as thoughts lessen, so does consciousness lessen.

looking to the gutter is anti life. life looks up. life wants to grow. it wants to improve. the deconstructing of language is just one ominous sign of many of where this society is heading.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 22

ROYP

Original post by Foo.mp3

Great story. Compelling and rich.

What a cool guy you are

Reply 23

blu tack

Op, how do you pronounce labour and ever? Im not sure I've ever head them pronounced with anything other than a schwa in non rhotic accents, which I presume yours is.

Reply 24

madders94

Original post by Foo.mp3

I just watched that and it struck me, so I thought I'd complain and see if I'm the only student-age person who has an issue with this.. I'm not on a concerted campaign or anything (yet) :tongue:

So you have no problem with letters being cut from the end of words (as described in the OP)?

I don't like it but with some accents it is and always has been a feature of that accent - that's not a sign of the falling standard of the English language, but rather a feature of that accent. When it is purposeful which seems to be the case with most "Jafakean" accents, that's when it really irritates me because it's forced.

Reply 25

TurboCretin

Original post by Kolya

Language standards change over time.

Such change is labelled as a 'decline' because some people have a vested interest in the continuation of earlier standards. For example f one has a prestige dialect then one's interests are served by defending perceptions of that dialect.

Whilst this is true, RP itself evolves. Different generations of the Royal family don't speak alike. So attempting to uphold a standard in broadcasting by restricting newsreaders to RP, for example, would not be so futile.

Your argument would pertain to the very fact that RP changes, which isn't quite what the OP is getting at, though whether or not he realises that I'm not sure.

Reply 26

TurboCretin

Original post by natchina

How are you distinguishing between degeneration and change?

Reply 27

louistoffee

this is just pretence- just because somebody has missed the "t" in a word, does it really merit a letter to the BBC? i agree that the language is finding some odd and grammatically incorrect phrases, but this woman is speaking in standard english. I, looked down at by speakers of the southern accents as a "scouser" hear no problem in her accent, it's pretty easy to understand. Some of the most educated people about (Mandela, Prof. Cox, etc.) have strong, non RP accents. if they started talking to you, would you stop them and tell them not to continue talking because you do not agree with whereabout the emphasis is placed on certain words in their spoken language? i presume you're from the south, because the majority of us can't tell the difference.

Reply 28

TurboCretin

I wouldn't see a problem with restricting newsreading jobs to prestige dialects. Not necessarily just RP, but prestige dialects for certain regions. But there is a disconnect between the changes on the BBC News and the changes in the country as a whole. The latter has always occurred.

Reply 29

g_star_raw_1989

I don't see the problem. I would encourage young children to watch RastaMouse (also on the bbc) because it is jokes!

Reply 30

najinaji

Original post by Foo.mp3

Please tell me that's a joke

Unfortunately, it isn't. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1086207/Osbornes-speech-lessons--sound-posh.html

Original post by blu tack

Op, how do you pronounce labour and ever? Im not sure I've ever head them pronounced with anything other than a schwa in non rhotic accents, which I presume yours is.

I'm not the OP, but personally: 'lay-ber' and 'eh-ver'

Reply 31

Bellissima

nope, language changes, as long as it's understandable then fine... i mean we speak completely differently to how they spoke 100 years ago, 200 years ago, 1000 years ago etc.

language changes and develops and i think most speak it well.

also don't see what's so wrong with the lady in the BBC news :s-smilie:

people have different accents.

Reply 32

MissLightyear

Its a well known fact that England has a wide range of accents, and thats great.

Im from the North West and I'm regularly told I sound common. Some people think my accent is really cool, some people say it makes me sound really stupid. So what?

Its time people accepted that people from different areas of the country will have different accents/dialect and not everyone speaks the Queen's English.

Reply 33

Bellissima

Original post by Foo.mp3

Did you miss the words I highlighted specifically or do you genuinely believe it's an acceptable standard to be presenting those words in that manner? :s-smilie:

yes it's easy to understand.. i don't see the problem.. people have different accents and pronounce things in different ways.

Reply 34

blu tack

Original post by Foo.mp3

As a regular BBC news anchor of the past half century would.. :smile:

do you have a video/recording example of that? Or could you render it in IPA? I disagree strongly with your opinion, but cba to argue it. This point intrigues me though; as far as I can think pretty much everyone I know pronounces labour and ever like the lady in the video.

Reply 35

blu tack

Original post by najinaji

Unfortunately, it isn't. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1086207/Osbornes-speech-lessons--sound-posh.html

I'm not the OP, but personally: 'lay-ber' and 'eh-ver'

Is that any different to how the woman in the video pronounces it?

Reply 36

blu tack

Original post by Foo.mp3

Aye, if you listen she uses txt speak-esque style shortenings/lazy pronounciation e.g. eva instead of ever, and la·ba instead of la·bour

Most of what she says she pronounces properly, it's a case of slacking off on some words - I don't think BBC news reporters should be paid to slack off with their speech personally..

She pronounces labour and ever with a schwa, and if you render your pronunciation as lab-er and ev-er then it sounds like you do too.
Or do you think she's literally saying labA (a as in cat) ? As far as I can tell, she isn't. For me to understand your moan I really need to hear an example of the 'proper' way to say it.

Edit- I listened again and she does say labour slightly differently once out of the 3 or 4 times that she says it? I still wouldn't call it labA though.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 37

MovieMoments

I suppose, I mean I love black and white movies partially due to this reason, but at the same time I recognise that it is the progression of language and is not something that can or even should be prevented.

Note: It was asked for and therefore I shall mention it. I'm caucasian British and live in south east England. I speak prodominantly in proper english (unless I have to translate for a friend and so on) and as I'm a book nerd, I use 'big words' too! Lol, just thinking of my english lit teacher who I'm horrified to find uses these words each lesson: 'babes', 'ohmydays!', and 'gang'. Oh dear...

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 38

Infallible

I hate people who replace 'tt' with 'll'.

Example:

Better --> Bella

Reply 39

blu tack

Original post by Foo.mp3

Also the last word in her report, 'ever' is "South London schoolgirl"-slack, which is unfortunate as it was this that crystalised the issue in my mind (important to get the sign off right)

Stay classy San Diego.

So you can't find an example of how labour 'should' be pronounced? Shame.
Or is she saying it 'right' the other three times that she says it?

This is a really silly thread. Who decides which pronunciation is better than any other? And I'd defy you to find any native English speaker who doesn't understand 'labA' for labour (not that she really said that). (except for perhaps those with a rhotic accent who would expect a voiced r in there)