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Do you know that? I got the impression that its a a fairly mixed bag... And even if it were just four or five colleges that's already 2000 odd really inconvenienced students.

That's assuming most students want to cook regularly. I don't doubt that a significant fraction do but maybe colleges just feel the money would be better spent on ~~port~~ postgraduate fellowships.

Reply 7981

Craghyrax

Original post by Supermerp

That's assuming most students want to cook regularly. I don't doubt that a significant fraction do but maybe colleges just feel the money would be better spent on ~~port~~ postgraduate fellowships.

I agree. However I think that in a lot of these cases, even if there is a majority who don't care, that doesn't make it acceptable to cause such problems and inconvenience for the minority.

If you amend these inconveniences and problems then everyone is happy, right? The majority who don't care aren't inconvenienced by the people who need to cook cooking.

Whereas if your attitude is 'well its only a minority who need this' then suddenly there's a lot more unhappiness, inconvenience and stress flying around.

Yes it might be more expensive for colleges to cater to all needs, but they should. Its easy to feel that if its only a minority of people who are bothered then they just need to conform to regular standards and be like everyone else. And I think unfortunately that most people do have this sentiment.

But what if you're coeliac and literally cannot eat 90% of the stuff prepared in hall (which is pretty much the case) Even if you can get exemption from KFC (which isn't true in all cases) you're stuck in accommodation where you really can't adequately prepare decent food for yourself. You might be forced to opt for private accommodation which is far more expensive for what you get, and isolates you from the rest of the undergraduate community.

It was exactly the same with the library hours at Peterhouse. They were the worst in the whole University (9am to midnight). The argument was 'well when we do extend the hours, not that many people use it later/earlier'. 19 out of 29 undergraduate colleges have 24 hour libraries. Yes it costs them more money/installing a security system (which Peterhouse didn't have) electricity and so on. But they still do it because its optimally supportive of peoples' study needs. Yes it might be only a minority of students who wake up at 4 to revise in Easter or keep going till 4, but you do get them and with the kind of pressures you have in terms of work at Cambridge its an absolute nightmare if your dissertation deadline is the next day and the people in the house next door are having a party. Its 2am so the porters have gone to bed, and the library is shut...
In my case, being autistic, I had massive difficulties working with any kind of distraction from other people. Even the slightest amount of noise was a big issue. My accommodation was too noisy to work, and the library was too noisy during the day. I was much happier and better at working all evening and into the early morning...
(FFS even UEA has a 24 hour library)

I just think that some colleges have the attitude of grudgingly providing the basics and being really stingy, and others seem to be really open to investing in everybody's welfare. I think they ought to make it better for everyone, even the minorities, at the very least out of self interest. Most colleges want their students to produce high academic results, and even if only a minority of people are being greatly inconvenienced that's certainly enough people to affect your Tomkin's standing. In both of the examples I've described the kind of provision that we're talking about isn't actually that expensive or difficult to arrange. That's why plenty of colleges do provide 24 hour libraries and adequate kitchen facilities. As Crazy Emz says, Cauis even profits from hall. So I don't think that it being a minority of students should matter.

And also its very natural for one to think 'I don't have a problem with x therefore most people are probably like me', which is an extremely unreliable way of judging what the preferences and attitudes are of ordinary students. It might be a minority who audibly complain about the problem, but that's not to say that there aren't a large amount of people out there who put up with it but who would be very enthusiastic if anyone were to offer an improvement.
My suspicion is that people dissatisfied with provision are a minority, but probably a larger one than you think. 70:30?

And each of you who have objected/said you weren't aware it was a problem are male. Not to pigeon hole, but there are fairly obvious reasons that a random sample of men would be more likely to say that kitchen facilities weren't an issue in comparison to a random group of women :lolwut:

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 7982

Slumpy

Original post by Craghyrax

It was exactly the same with the library hours at Peterhouse. They were the worst in the whole University (9am to midnight).

And each of you who have objected/said you weren't aware it was a problem are male. Not to pigeon hole, but there are fairly obvious reasons that a random sample of men would be more likely to say that kitchen facilities weren't an issue in comparison to a random group of women :lolwut:

Girton was 9-11 in exam term :p:

(I don't know normally, I didn't go to the library)

Actually, my biggest issue with the kitchen was the girls making a mess of it, but I am something of a clean freak :p:

Reply 7983

Supermerp

Original post by Craghyrax

My suspicion is that people dissatisfied with provision are a minority, but probably a larger one than you think. 70:30?

And each of you who have objected/said you weren't aware it was a problem are male. Not to pigeon hole, but there are fairly obvious reasons that a random sample of men would be more likely to say that kitchen facilities weren't an issue in comparison to a random group of women :lolwut:

I appreciate your assumption that I'm automatically in the group of people who don't want to cook. But if the fraction is that large maybe they wouldn't get enough people going to hall, so they'd rather encourage people to go and at least they're not doing it Caius/Peterhouse-style.

Perhaps if someone knew how many cookers vs non-cookers there are in Newnham (which for one reason or another apparently has quite good kitchen facilities, comparatively), we'd have something approaching an answer.

I agree that people with dietary requirements should be catered for. But most colleges (afaik) have at least some college accommodation with a decent kitchen, so maybe it would be a good idea for people who need a kitchen to be given preference. I also think they should have non-****ty vegetarian food.

Edit: I think my problem is that it's not really obvious to me (or, I think, to anyone here) how expensive/difficult/whatever it is to provide kitchen facilities in buildings that weren't designed for them, especially since in a given population of students there are enough people who are so incapable of participating in human society that they'd make the kitchen unusable and smash everything to pieces anyway. Whenever I've commented about colleges being stingy around a fellow they've normally commented about it not necessarily being the way I'd thought about it. For what it's worth, I'd be all in favour of abolishing college rowing subsidies in order to provide ovens in kitchens.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 7984

The West Wing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134038/Cambridge-University-student-21-killed-car-crash-way-rowing-training-camp.html :frown:

Reply 7985

Craghyrax

Original post by ebam_uk

Sort yourself out :lolwut:

Wow... I don't even know where to begin with that :eyeball:

Original post by Supermerp

I would rather them 'encourage' people to go via a requirement and provide adequate kitchen facilities than use inadequate kitchen facilities to drive people to hall out of no other choice. It doesn't seem that different really :p:

Supermerp

For what it's worth, I'd be all in favour of abolishing college rowing subsidies in order to provide ovens in kitchens.

Snap

I'm sure I don't know enough about the ins and outs of college budgeting, but still...

Original post by The West Wing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134038/Cambridge-University-student-21-killed-car-crash-way-rowing-training-camp.html :frown:

I assume you knew her. I'm sorry.

Original post by Slumpy

Girton was 9-11 in exam term :p:

(I don't know normally, I didn't go to the library)

Actually, my biggest issue with the kitchen was the girls making a mess of it, but I am something of a clean freak :p:

Me too! And I know that about Girton because I looked up all the college's different library hours and compared them.

Reply 7986

Slumpy

Original post by Craghyrax

Me too! And I know that about Girton because I looked up all the college's different library hours and compared them.

Yeah, Saturday night no hall, so everyone used kitchens. And the GGP tended to descend upon mine, leaving it a tip Sunday morning¬¬(Not a problem because I tended to go brunch, but still! Lovely people all, just messy as anything when going out after!)

Reply 7987

Craghyrax

Original post by Slumpy

Yep. You've put your finger on one aspect of student life I can't rail against the system towards :wink:

There's nothing for it but for people to stop being inconsiderate messy slobs :frown:

It winds me up a lot because its so normal in the UK and therefore acceptable. I might have mentioned this before, but I worked for friends who own a ski holiday company in the French Alps before my degree. They consistently found that the chalets left in the worst condition by clients were always the ones hired by British tourists. All the other nationalities cleared up after themselves.
I've certainly found a big difference in the state of normal homes after moving from South Africa to England!

Reply 7988

scarlet ibis

Original post by The West Wing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134038/Cambridge-University-student-21-killed-car-crash-way-rowing-training-camp.html :frown:

So incredibly sad :frown:

Reply 7989

It could be lupus

Original post by Craghyrax

And each of you who have objected/said you weren't aware it was a problem are male. Not to pigeon hole, but there are fairly obvious reasons that a random sample of men would be more likely to say that kitchen facilities weren't an issue in comparison to a random group of women :lolwut:

I normally cook. I do have to go outside of my court though to cook due to the poor facilities. Paying a large KFC is really annoying as well as I don't normally eat in hall

Reply 7990

Craghyrax

Original post by It could be lupus

I normally cook. I do have to go outside of my court though to cook due to the poor facilities. Paying a large KFC is really annoying as well as I don't normally eat in hall

Good on you! That must be quite frustrating and time consuming... lugging things over to different staircases and things.

Reply 7991

It could be lupus

Original post by Craghyrax

Good on you! That must be quite frustrating and time consuming... lugging things over to different staircases and things.

Extremely. The combi oven I have overheats and turns itself off after about 5mins of cooking using the oven so the facilities given by the college really are insufficient. Ah well, at least I will have good kitchen facilities next year in London :smile:

Reply 7992

Slumpy

Original post by Craghyrax

Yep. You've put your finger on one aspect of student life I can't rail against the system towards :wink:

There's nothing for it but for people to stop being inconsiderate messy slobs :frown:

Happened in third year too when I lived on a corridor with only my friends. I don't know how people can live like that! Then again, I packed my clothes so I had exactly the same number of days of t-shirts/boxers/socks, and esentially 1 of everything in the kitchen. Planning ftw...

Reply 7993

Craghyrax

Original post by It could be lupus

Is that where you're off to for clinicals?

Original post by Slumpy

A certain UC champion I will not name used to bring his dinner to our staircase from hall (we were in Old court) and just leave the plates in the gyp room. He just left them there. I always stacked them on top of eachother to free up space. Eventually by 5th week he'd been doing this every day. The plates had fur on them and the stack looked like it was going to fall on our heads any minute. Finally the bedder forced him to wash them all. But he then just started the whole process again :mad:

Can't think what it'd have been like if they actually cooked. The one time the other person of the three of us living there cooked there was food splattered everywhere, over everything, with burnt bits all over the hob :sigh:

Reply 7994

It could be lupus

Original post by Craghyrax

Is that where you're off to for clinicals?

Yeah. I'm escaping the bubble. I wanted to try something different and I think London will be a great place for clinical training. Feels strange to be graduating soon though

Reply 7995

Craghyrax

Original post by It could be lupus

Yeah. I'm escaping the bubble. I wanted to try something different and I think London will be a great place for clinical training. Feels strange to be graduating soon though

Indeed. 3 years isn't really very long. Do you have a rough idea of how many medics choose each option?

Reply 7996

Canned Door

Original post by Zoedotdot

Emma is really really good at looking after its students, but it does sometimes feel like they don't really let us look after ourselves. I think that's partly just me having come back from living completely on my own on my year abroad and having to adapt to the restrictions of college life though.

I definitely have been thinking lately, if I don't have hobs and combi-micro (knowing full well that's the max there could possibly be), I'd be bringing it up in my first couple of weeks. Especially given the I feel like the kitchen is the centre-point of my life at the moment, socially and foodily. We don't have a living room where I am, so my kitchen literally is our shared room. I know I wouldn't be cooking every single day when I come back, but I was in EC last year and we had a functional kitchen at the very least, this year I'm cooking once if not twice a day, and I can't see myself going from that to nothing, especially not in a house full of other linguists.

Reply 7997

ukebert

Original post by Craghyrax

Yep. You've put your finger on one aspect of student life I can't rail against the system towards :wink:

There's nothing for it but for people to stop being inconsiderate messy slobs :frown:

It winds me up as well. Although when I worked in youth hostels people were generally very considerate. But then the sort of people who sleep in dormitories in the Lake District are probably not the same people who rent ski chalets in the alps...

I am not in favour of them installing ovens in our kitchens, because then there would be no room for the sink. The people opposite me cook a lot and whilst I salute them for it, it is a tad annoying if you want to make a sandwich and every free space is covered with pots and pans. And that's not a reflection on them being messy, it's a reflection on the space!

Reply 7998

lp386

I have introduced my flatmates to The Crystal Maze. I consider this a success.

Reply 7999

Topaz_eyes

Original post by It could be lupus

London sounds cool :smile:

Congrats!

RE kitchens: I'm a pretty tidy person, too, and about half the people I shared with last year were not. They tended to be wash-up when you need the item people, rather than the wash-up when you finish using it (or shortly after!) My bedder, who was lovely, used to get so annoyed, and I didn't blame her. I felt bad and I wasn't doing it! This year's much better, as we're all pretty tidy :smile: