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Law Applicants 2012

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Original post by Tsunami2011


hit the nail on the head :biggrin:
TSR does not like correct information...

QMUL is a good place, but I don't think it's in the same league as King's, Durham etc.
Even though I agree with you and I understand that QM is not on par with others in terms of reputation you cannot deny that reputation is not the only thing that matters.
For Sarah maybe it's important that Queen Mary's law department is in top 3 for student satisfaction. I might find it important that students are satisfied with the feedback that they receive because it's crucial to have someone to guide you when studying law since it's not a soft subject. I wouldn't like having teachers that won't answer to your e-mails. Also, there are excellent teachers at QM and you cannot deny that, even though it would be strange to 'measure' which university has the best teachers. The important part is that you can understand what you study and develop skills that will help you latter.
What I want to put emphasis on is the fact that maybe you shouldn't rank a university the way the Guardian does but nor can you rank a university based solely by its reputation.
(edited 11 years ago)
Just to be sure - you are talking about the microcosm of Law?:smile:
You didn't provide any factual information; you just provided your own opinion. In truth, the only thing that matters is how employers perceive you as a candidate as a result of going to a particular university. In the real world, as long as you go to an 'old university' you will be fine.

Employers will likely ask to see A-level results. Someone who got A*AA from KCL is not going to be favoured in any way to someone who got A*AA from QMUL by the vast, vast majority of employers. Many graduate employers look to see if you have high 2:1s and firsts in your degree marks. And a crucial thing many employers look for is experience. Law firms already filter out many applicants from 'new universities' tacitly by requiring AAB or better at A-level.

I've taken a degree and gone through the vacation scheme application process, and then went through the training contract process. I've spent this year doing the LPC. So speaking as someone who has done countless of these applications, and someone who has spoken to the HR and lawyers at these law firms who have told me what they were looking for, having gone through interviews and assessment days, I can tell you what you are talking about in terms of 'leagues', 'divisions' or 'tiers' is a GROSSLY inaccurate reflection of students are recruited from university.

The problem is - and I know this before you even respond - you will somehow try to backtrack or pretend you were just articulating some justified opinion, but the reality you're plain wrong, and there's no way you can justify yourself. I did open days way back when. When I was speaking to school students in person, I found them really humble and nice. But on a forum when we can't see each other, and you can't tell I'm 23, and it's more difficult to tell you about my experiences and other people's experiences with actual employers, and for you to actually digest it.
Your evidence is pretty shoddy to be honest. In this link, Sheffield has more representation that UCL, LSE,and King's. Does this mean that Sheffield produce more attractive graduates than the aforementioned universities?. There are too many variables, for you to jump to the conclusion that Hogan Lovells doesn't favour QMUL, i.e how many applicants from QMUL were on course for a strong 2:1 or first, and had strong work exp/extra curricular.




LSE isn't in this list either. I guess LSE isn't one of the most targeted law schools in the country.


And, of course, you can read this post by someone who has more experience than you do:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=88536


That post is seven years old.. alot can change in that time. QMUL has improved in that time.


Fact of the matter is that there are tiers among the law schools and yes, certain law schools are selected for or recruited over there. QMUL is not in the same league as Durham, Nottingham, KCL, UCL, LSE, Bristol at least no yet. Might it be eventually? Sure. Is it currently? No. And you need only look at not just my statements, but the statements of other people who have experience in the field as well as look at simple statistics. For example, Lovells didn't take a single person from QMUL but did take more than a good number from the schools I mentioned.


You seem to just regurgitate what you've read on TSR, since I recall you making numerous threads about the top UK law schools, so a word to the wise, don't take TSR as gospel.
(edited 11 years ago)
As I said before, would you accept that Sheffield is a peer to these schools then, considering that it produces more Hogan Lovells trainees then the ones you listed?


Take a look at the League Tables -- QMUL has lower entry standards (and yes, there is a general correlation between selectivity of a school and the caliber of student which goes to/graduate from said school); they have lower % of employment post-graduation.


QMUL is at 437 for entry standards approx A*AAc at A-level, which is hardly terrible. I don't even really think QMUL is as good as people think, but your reasoning does not suffice. QMUL probably isn't as selective, as a few of the listed schools, but ultimately this is down to prestige rather than the quality of its Law dept.



No, it's common knowledge that LSE is one of the top law schools, but they haven't been included -- maybe they opted out.


That strikes me as very far fetched, the collection of the data would have nothing to do with LSE, all that would be done is recording where pupils have studied.


I'm not taking TSR as gospel -- I'm taking what I've found through research and talking to a great number of people who are currently in law school or working in the legal field.


About QMUL in particular or in general?
Mine isn't opinion. It's a fact how law firms recruit. I've spoken to people in HR and lawyers. Been to presentations. Done the applications. They want a minimum of AAB, and a 2:1 degree. Most applicants have AAA at this point. Even that isn't cast in stone; I know someone with ABB who got a training contract with an MC firm. It's illogical to discriminate based off university alone. Someone who got AAA at KCL isn't better on those facts than someone better at Exeter, or Newcastle, or Dundee with AAA. Employers/HR aren't as stupid as you think they are.

You are suggesting that there is a tier system which employers use to filter out graduates. This just isn't true. There is no secret chart. You are American. You have not spoken, I presume, to HR in this country at major law firms. I don't even know if you've been to the country before. You may have read threads, but I'm telling you what happens with most employers all round the country. Because your suggestion is illogical and stupid.

As far as Hogan Lovells goes, it says these are 'some of their trainees', not all. I'm sure there are trainees, associates and partners who have gone to QM. I don't need to look it up. I know there will be. But even if they didn't it doesn't make a difference; it depends on how many people in each year want to go into law, who they are, where they apply, how many applications they make...people in my graduating year ended up at MC firms, US firms, other top law firms. Many did masters with the intention of going to the bar or law firms. Lots of people didn't want to do law at all. The same problem goes for the bar statistic. You'll see great unis like Warwick aren't recorded. It's a snapshot from a particular year; some might be taking masters. Remember also 50% of a law firm's recruitment comes from non-law students, so it also depends on whether students in other departments in the uni want to go into law too.
Original post by gtfo
Reducing the number of applicants is precisely the purpose of the A*AA offer :smile:

If they have 10 A*AA applicants for every place, having to evaluate any more is unnecessary, additional work for admissions staff.


Makes sense! 8D I'm pretty sure I don't have a chance anymore (results A*NearlyAB-A* Literature, NearlyA Maths and B Econs) so I'm banking on Bristol. :smile:

Where are you hoping to go? :smile:
Original post by Rancorous
You didn't provide any factual information; you just provided your own opinion


I'm not looking to start an angry barfight, but surely that's the business plan of TSR? If you want factual information then HEAP, league tables, prospectuses, and statements from those in the industry are your friend. If you want the opinion of hundreds of thousands of anonymous, faceless internet users then TSR is your friend.

That's my opinion anyway!
Original post by mathsmusicfrench
Just read that. Had negative reviews of the UCL Law/French Law course. (Which is why I applied straight Law at UCL and then picked a French Law course elsewhere. Don't know if thats the same for German though.


Dear mathsmusicfrench I would appreciate it a lot if you could provide me with some information on the UCL Law/French Law course. You say that you had negative reviews of this particular course. What exactly do you know about it because I have been trying to contact someone that may have some information about it for a really long time. I would be grateful if you could tell me anything you know about it... Thank you in advance!!!
Original post by Panayiotis
Dear mathsmusicfrench I would appreciate it a lot if you could provide me with some information on the UCL Law/French Law course.


Ok. Having decided, I've essentially forgotten all specific information on all other courses, including what people have said to me, but I will try and remember and redo some research and get back to you with specifics.

I looked at the course, didn't fancy it, and decided to apply for Law LLB, but then I said in my application covering letter to UCL direct that I wouldn't mind consideration for the French course if they felt it was more appropriate and they were unable to offer me a place on the LLB. (the same happens in reverse for people who apply for French Law)

What I do remember is in the spoiler. (I figured I wouldn't "spoil" everyone's life by boring them with the petty details of my brain's inner workings)

Spoiler




A final point is that UCL is such a good place, such a reputable place, to study law, that if you are going there you might as well get on with it quickly and do a straight LLB, which is a highly rated degree from UCL and which will give you just as much respect and progress through a legal career/training for one as a French Law degree from UCL will, and in addition you will be one year less old and one year less poor.

I now need to attach the standard disclaimer where I say that UCL is a really, really, really good uni, and studying anything there is worth it. They don't offer "bad" courses so any degree is a winner really, and don't take my advice as a reason to avoid UCL.

There you are, that's everything I have to say, hope you enjoyed it, hope its helpful.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 3692
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popsoda
1
Can I ask which uni is best out of: Warwick, Newcastle and QM?

for teaching quality, student satisfaction, employability (my personal order of preference)

and anything else you may deem important.
Thanks in advance!!

(I've also had offers from reading (insurance) and leicester.
Did well at GCSE 8A*s 6As then flopped AS's with ABBB which is why I didn't apply to the top top ones, but predicted A*AA which i'm working my ass off to try and get)
Original post by popsoda


for teaching quality, student satisfaction and, employability (my personal order of preference)


You can get all of that from any of the various league tables..
Reply 3694
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sasha165
Firmed Sussex :biggrin:
Reply 3695
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popsoda
1
Original post by Tsunami2011
You can get all of that from any of the various league tables..


You can get numbers from a league table but you can't get individuals opinions and insights from people who have been to the unis or have friends that go to them etc.
i want to start LLB from open university as i can't go with regular, i have heard OU is not known outside Uk and whether would it be difficult for me to find a training contract or job?
Original post by star_super789
i want to start LLB from open university as i can't go with regular, i have heard OU is not known outside Uk and whether would it be difficult for me to find a training contract or job?


What are you interested in, its international reputation or its reputation with UK training contract providers?

The UK has in the Open University and the London External programmes two of the world's most renowned distance learning providers. The regard in which distance learning is held varies from country to country.

For UK training contract providers, the assumption would be that an Open University student is studying whilst holding down a full-time job. The respect for OU degrees largely comes from that. Without that full time job, an OU degree might not be seen as very strong.
Very good.
QMUL is still not replying me.
This is crazy


I jest, I jest.

But in all seriousness, I received my QMUL offer pretty late too. When I asked them what they were doing they said there has been an extraordinary number of applicants this year.

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