Do corporate lawyers in London really make that much money?

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I.e. Like any profession, be the best at the job and/or make very good alliances.
But one has to question whether they'd be that good as a lawyer.

I'm also not sure about those figures. I thought a junior could be on 150k, and a salaried could be on about 200-250k, but it really depends so much on the firm and individual it's difficult to speculate:
http://www.edwardsgibson.com/article/view/52

First source I found. But regardless, I think there are reckoned to be less than 400 equity partners earning a million or more, yet there are over 120 000 qualified lawyers in the UK (whether they practice or not) which means 0.3% of lawyers.

Reply 41

tdkr

oh my god. Law is the BEST profession in the world!!!!!! going uni to do law this september and i promise i am going for firsts in EVERY exam i do!!!!! i want to take the solicitor route!

Reply 42

nulli tertius

Original post by Rancorous

Recorded earnings will be falling in the future as firms incorporate.

True partners and members of LLPs are taxed on undrawn profits and for the past five or six years that has included unbilled work in progress.

In a corporate structure, re-invested profits do not form part of a equity holder's earnings whilst they do add to his wealth.

Reply 43

chalks

Original post by mirin?

I'm nothing special, but i know if i apply myself more i can be very successful. And i believe i'm entitled to success because i owe it to my own potential, not necessarily some solicitors training contract.

Original post by mirin?

But it must be for what i want, and thats money. I don't really care about being in some respected role like Doctor or Lawyer.

So people applying for the magic circle and getting the jobs may be better than me at the moment? But so what? It doesn't mean they're going to end up with more in the bank than me.

Can I suggest you print out this thread, and tuck it away in a drawer for a few years? It may make for amusing reading when you're a little older. I suggest that you won't be nearly so motivated by money in the bank in 10 years or so.

Unfortunately, you seem to have a dangerous mix of (a) an overwhelming sense of entitlement and (b) a relatively average CV for the sorts of roles you're talking about. A 2:1 from a good Uni, with some charity work, a mini-pupillage and some language skills isn't really going to set the world alight. Either recalibrate your goals, or really start to push yourself if you think you're capable of achieving great things.

Oh, and money isn't everything. Trust me on that one.

Reply 44

jfranks

im interested in going into a career in law, and frim the research i've done so far and a bit of mathematical estimation, it would seem that its more likely that you can take home a larger disposable income from being a self employed barrister, (with fairly flexible hours might i add) than you could from working within a corporate law firm. however, thats just what i have figured out for my own potential, but im sure if what you have posted earlier is true, you will have the ability to make money both ways

Reply 45

Ewok

Original post by jfranks

Not necessarily- you may take a higher fee but barristers are self-employed, which means they have to pay their own pension, travel expenses and sick/maternity leave, they don't get holiday pay and lack the security of a salaried position. Especially in the context of commercial law they have to pay their own professional indemnity insurance.

You also seem to be overlooking the fact that competition for pupillage, especially commercial, at the self-employed bar is considerably fiercer than competition for training contracts.

Reply 46

Rancorous

Original post by jfranks

I've worked at some good commercial sets. After the first year they expected most people to be on 100k. Barristers in their mid to late thirties were on 130s-150s. Their fight was not to be earning any more, but not to be earning any less. Obviously though it completely differs from person to person and there are some people who have a pull down bed in their room, some people leave at 5/6pm. I was also told becoming a QC isn't always a good thing because firms might think you're less value for money than you were. They also incur their own costs, as pointed out above, and rent the room.

Reply 47

mirin?

Original post by chalks

Trust me, I will be, money is very important for me. And I am not exactly expecting to get a lot of it from the legal profession unless by some miracle i become a partner. I don't think I will tbh.

I am not going to just settle for some average salary. Why do some people think i'm so delusional based on my current c.v.?

I will apply to some law firms, but tbh, its not the end of the world if i don't get a training contract.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 48

mirin?

And what is so wrong about holding money as so important in life? It is very important.

Reply 49

Rancorous

Original post by mirin?

And what is so wrong about holding money as so important in life? It is very important.

You'll learn that Mammon is not the kindest of Gods and you'll leave his doctrine behind one day.

Reply 50

roh

Original post by mirin?

And what is so wrong about holding money as so important in life? It is very important.

I doubt number six on this list was 'I wish I'd earned more money'.

Money's important because of what it can get you, in and of itself it is just some pieces of metal or paper and, in most cases these days, a number on a piece of paper with a bank name at the top of it.

Reply 51

mirin?

Original post by Rancorous

You'll learn that Mammon is not the kindest of Gods and you'll leave his doctrine behind one day.

This made me lol, i love you man.

Reply 52

Sianeh

Original post by mirin?

So, out of interest, in what profession DO you see yourself making this mini fortune that you assume will be infinitely greater than those who make it in the legal profession? By taking over your dad's takeaway business?

Reply 53

mirin?

Original post by Sianeh

Nice try at the witty response but, the takeaway businesses have been in decline since the 2000's because of market saturation.

I'm just saying that, unless you become a partner, the pay won't be great. Nothing wrong with that if that is what you want. But if you're motivated by money then it is illogical to go for the profession. And the novelty of being known as a "lawyer" wears off rather quickly. And of course there is the billing targets and unpredictability of redundancies etc.

But, I have not answered your main question yet. And my answer to that is that we are in the midst of a very troubled economy which makes everything ten times more difficult, if i knew the answer to that I would not be sat here typing away to you. But, I would much rather be failing at something I believe in rather than something I do half arsed.

The problem with a lot of lawyers is the high self esteem they seem to hold themselves at. Sorry, but apart from the magic circle no one has a right to really be high and mighty about anything unless they are partners. The magic circle is a different kettle of fish altogether, I respect how good they are because they are genuinely finished product all rounders. However, the commonality with all general lawyers is that they work for very wealthy individuals and corporations, who are not... lawyers.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 54

fudgesundae

Original post by Rancorous

My figures are only from top city firms and US firms (where I have quite a few family members working). I don't really know about 'middle market' firms in the city although I doubt they are as high as the ones I quoted.

First source I found. But regardless, I think there are reckoned to be less than 400 equity partners earning a million or more, yet there are over 120 000 qualified lawyers in the UK (whether they practice or not) which means 0.3% of lawyers.

Well yes, but you have to remember, all of those 400 will be working in London. Most of those 120,000 won't be. I'm not saying that loads of people earn that sort of money, just that it's a lot more than 0.3%.

Reply 55

mirin?

Original post by roh

My point was that people are governed by money, we are all governed by it whether we like it or not so the suggestions that its not that important are flawed. Firms have a right to call me out on this and that , that i feel a sense of entitlement etc because they have... you guessed it money and i am trying to get hired because they have that money. Without the money what would they be? Not much i would think.

Reply 56

mirin?

And this part of my life will drive me on tbh. I don't want to be seen as a failure by my peers and family, so I've got to find my own path in life. Not want they want for me, I'm under pressure to succeed on a personal pride level but I think it is totally do-able. I need to improve my CV a lot , but I have a base to work from because apart from my first year grades i am fine. But the next step is to get the first and exceptional experiences.

I just think that me and the legal profession don't suit one another.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 57

nulli tertius

Original post by fudgesundae

Well yes, but you have to remember, all of those 400 will be working in London.

There will be some outliers. Beresfords of Doncaster had the two highest earning solicitors in the country before they were struck off. I don't know whether Sir Nigel Knowles still works out of Dibbs' Sheffield office. Goodness knows what Maurice Watkins at Brabners earns.There are also one or two very high earning criminal solicitors

Most of those 120,000 won't be. I'm not saying that loads of people earn that sort of money, just that it's a lot more than 0.3%.

The 2009 figures for private practice were just over 85,000 of which over 37,000 worked in London. 12,450 of those London solicitors were salaried or equity partners. 400 is still only a little over 3% of London partners.

Reply 58

Howbeit

Original post by mirin?

I'm a little confused by you. Do you want to go into Law or what?

On some threads you proclaim you and Law don't mix. In others you say being a lawyer isn't all that great and they earn average salaries. Then you say you're going to get into a MC firm? None of your posts are making any sense to me. It seems you've come from asking a question about how much corporate lawyers earn to believing you're some kind of expert on the subject? I don't understand why'd you want to go into Law if you don't like it?

Reply 59

jfranks

Original post by Ewok

barristers are self-employed, which means they have to pay their own pension, travel expenses and sick/maternity leave, they don't get holiday pay and lack the security of a salaried position.

ur right f course and i agree, but since neither i nor the OP want kids (not to mention he is male) i dont think maternity leave is going to be an issue. and even if it was, im sure his wife's employer would allow her some time off.
but moving back on topic...
i do understand that being self employed as a barrister will mean covering a few of your own cost, but no more than he would if he was to start his own buisness as some other people in this thread have suggested.
and if i have estimated correctly then the amount you can save from tax returns and tax exemption and just good accounting (especially when it comes to putting aside a pension) all these benefits can actually cancel out the costs.

but anyways, it really does depend on the person, their financial management and their abillity to work hard and actually EARN the higher salaries. it is risky but i'm sure it can be done. (at least i hope otherwise im screwed)