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British Empire Society

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Reply 460

DYKWIA

Original post by cl_steele

That doesnt negate the fact the colonists invaded the Americas...

There was plenty of land for everyone. No one had to kill anyone else.

You have nothing to do with this im talking about your dear forfathers.

Actually, Native Americans still try and claim that we shouldn't be in 'their' country. Americans in the 19th Century were just as native as Native Americans.

What possible right did they have to steal their land and dump them in reservations?

If they didn't act violently towards others there would be no need. Heck, in some cases it was for their own good.

someone flys a plane into your buildings you lot bomb the middle east back to the stone age i perish the thought if anyone actually tried to invade the US...

Muslim terrorists brutally murdered innocent Americans. They deserved to pay for what they did. In fact I still don't think we have gotten suitable revenge for what the muslims did. It's disgusting to think they hate us so much.

Anyways, the invasion of Iraq was completely unrelated to 9/11. Also, you are lecturing me about the invasion of Iraq and yet England did the same. Oh, I see you are from New Zealand and New Zealand troops invaded Iraq too.

And where does he say its biassed and poorly cited? :s-smilie:

You do realise those were all justied in the day? Taking the Indians land, prior massacres etc. we all know the only way to send a clear message is through acts of violence...

He admits it in the book itself. I have seen that book and it is trash.

Ah yeah, so it's justified if the Native Americans do it? :rolleyes:

Your a racist.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 461

cl_steele

Original post by DYKWIA

There was plenty of land for everyone. No one had to kill anyone else.
Actually, Native Americans still try and claim that we shouldn't be in 'their' country. Americans in the 19th Century were just as native as Native Americans.
If they didn't act violently towards others there would be no need. Heck, in some cases it was for their own good.
Muslim terrorists brutally murdered innocent Americans. They deserved to pay for what they did. In fact I still don't think we have gotten suitable revenge for what the muslims did. It's disgusting to think they hate us so much.
Anyways, the invasion of Iraq was completely unrelated to 9/11. Also, you are lecturing me about the invasion of Iraq and yet England did the same. Oh, I see you are from Australia and Australian troops invaded Iraq too.
He admits it in the book itself. I have seen that book and it is trash.
Ah yeah, so it's justified if the Native Americans do it? :rolleyes:

Your a racist.

Exactly so why did the Colonists slaughter the Indians to grab more? The Indians gave them land even helped them settle but y'al still wanted more and more didnt you.
No they werent, they were as native as my arse is to Califoria.
Errr they werent the ones who started it, why dont we dump all of the Americans in concentration camps? after all its for their own good isnt it?
Maybe if the US hadnt been arming their enemies for decades they wouldnt have needed to make a point, oh please they killed a couple of thousand through your wars youve contributed directly to the deaths of hundreds of thousands if not millions. So you want to kill more civillians then? Sadistic much?
I see the rumours about Americans not knowing what a map is are true, the flag is New Zealand, not Australian. I am not liable for my governments actions, least of all a labour one :fuhrer:

Please do cite me the page number and i will have a look at that. No its quite good actually.
No its justified when they retaliate which is exactly what they did and you continue you do. Oh do shut up im white you moron how can i be racist to my own colour?

Reply 462

DYKWIA

Original post by cl_steele

Exactly so why did the Colonists slaughter the Indians to grab more? The Indians gave them land even helped them settle but y'al still wanted more and more didnt you.

Only land that they weren't using. Then they got violent and started killing Americans. They were rightly scared and so they retaliated.

No they werent, they were as native as my arse is to Califoria.

They were born in the USA, so why should they have to leave? Where would they go? I ask the same of Native Americans now who think white people have no right to be in the USA. Where would we go?

Errr they werent the ones who started it, why dont we dump all of the Americans in concentration camps? after all its for their own good isnt it?

No thank you. The USA is our country. Why should we be rounded up and put in concentration camps. We aren't going around murdering Native Americans now.

Maybe if the US hadnt been arming their enemies for decades they wouldnt have needed to make a point, oh please they killed a couple of thousand through your wars youve contributed directly to the deaths of hundreds of thousands if not millions. So you want to kill more civillians then? Sadistic much?

BS. The USA is not responsible for all those deaths. US troops and drones do not mindlessly kill innocents in the ME. I want to kill those responsible for bringing the great pain to the USA.

I see the rumours about Americans not knowing what a map is are true, the flag is New Zealand, not Australian. I am not liable for my governments actions, least of all a labour one :fuhrer:

I know New Zealand and Australia are different, but the flags are the same so it is confusing. I corrected when I read your location. Lol, I know you have a copy of the Space Needle in Auckland!

Please do cite me the page number and i will have a look at that. No its quite good actually.

I can't remember exactly. I don't have the book with me. It's in the forward I think.

No its justified when they retaliate which is exactly what they did and you continue you do. Oh do shut up im white you moron how can i be racist to my own colour?

In that case it was justified for Americans to kill the Native Americans since they started it. No. Wrong. You can't use this 'they started it' argument. It doesn't make the killings of innocent Americans justified.

You are racist because you think that only white Americans can commit atrocities.

Reply 463

cl_steele

Original post by DYKWIA

Only land that they weren't using. Then they got violent and started killing Americans. They were rightly scared and so they retaliated.

Well of course, would you give the land you are using to someone out of the kindness of your heart? I think not... Dont try and play the position that the colonists were innocent in any way, shape or form... completely untennable position, as the saying goes there is no smoke without fire.

Original post by DYKWIA

They were born in the USA, so why should they have to leave? Where would they go? I ask the same of Native Americans now who think white people have no right to be in the USA. Where would we go?

Its more why should they steal land thats not theres then get upset when the natives whos land it was come back out of said camps to get it back...
Meh now is different, we are talking purely past tense here.

Original post by DYKWIA

No thank you. The USA is our country. Why should we be rounded up and put in concentration camps. We aren't going around murdering Native Americans now..

So why were the natives put into camps when it was their country then...
again see point above

Original post by DYKWIA

BS. The USA is not responsible for all those deaths. US troops and drones do not mindlessly kill innocents in the ME. I want to kill those responsible for bringing the great pain to the USA.

utter tosh! there would be no civil war in Iraq and Afghanistan. No armed stand off with Israel etc. On the whole no but there have been cases of just that...
Well you have every right to, my point is that that is exactly how they see it ... youre country has brought pain to them why shouldnt they bring the fight back to your door?

Original post by DYKWIA

I know New Zealand and Australia are different, but the flags are the same so it is confusing. I corrected when I read your location. Lol, I know you have a copy of the Space Needle in Auckland!

-_- they are not! we have the red pacific star theres is white and slightly more random :tongue:

. That is our Sky Tower and most certainly not a rip off of Seattles Space Needle :biggrin:

I can't remember exactly. I don't have the book with me. It's in the forward I think.

In that case it was justified for Americans to kill the Native Americans since they started it. No. Wrong. You can't use this 'they started it' argument. It doesn't make the killings of innocent Americans justified.

You are racist because you think that only white Americans can commit atrocities.

Just joined!

Original post by Gilliwoo

Once more, the Spanish Armada had fairly little to do with the British Empire...

The defeat of the Spanish Armada woke up contemporaries to the potential of the British Navy which went on to become one of the most powerful Navy's ever to sail.

Reply 466

Fashion Girl

: "yes !!!!!! power to the people ! that's how we would.have done it if we had the capability" = :rofl:

! ...there really should be like a more powerful crown emoticon to try to make jokes with.... but more importantly :ahee:

BRITISH EMPIRE...the source of all things good in the world :yep:

! Oh how the mighty have risen from the days of yore in a tiny Irish island...

Posted from TSR Mobile

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 467

Fashion Girl

Original post by filastini

India should just go back to being under British rule again, because right now India sucks. Britain would make it a much better country.

jk :hugs:

OMG is this actually real :lolwut:

?!?! Bangladesh was a part of India then. Other ppl also feel this way about former British colonies :eek:

? I dunno a lot about India actually :colondollar:

but it would certainly make Bangladesh a better country!

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 468

MatureStudent36

Original post by Fashion Girl

OMG is this actually real :lolwut:

?!?! Bangladesh was a part of India then. Other ppl also feel this way about former British colonies :eek:

? I dunno a lot about India actually :colondollar:

but it would certainly make Bangladesh a better country!

Posted from TSR Mobile

Every Indian I've met actually acknowledges that India benefited from Empire. I've even met two who felt that it would benefit if we controlled it again to stop the political corruption.

Jamaica did a poll not to long back with some rather shocking facts.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009487/We-stayed-Britain-Shock-poll-reveals-60-Jamaicans-think-theyd-better-colony.html

Good and bad happens no matter where you look, and depending on how you wish to interpret those events.

We have a high degree of people within the UK who like to self depricate the UK. They get a bit of a shock though when they actually speak to those people who come from those countries or live in them. The UK is still well respected on the world stage. After all, we left pretty much all colonies in a better position than they were in before with transport infrastructure, a judiciary and legal system and functioning governments.

Some from those argue that we didn't. But scratch the surface and a lot of those people (Mugabe) need to create a myth that the bad things happening now through poor governance are somebody elses fault.

Reply 469

Lemon Andersen

Original post by MatureStudent36

Just out of interest, so if the colonial project did 'benefit' people, in terms of increased life expetancy, gave them roads, hospitals ,schools, ect. At the cost of the their freedom, and a bit of blood shed here and there it would be justified ?

Although you do have a point, a lot of dictators in Africa justify their actions on the grounds that they are doing what they are against Western Imperialism. Its often the ones who were fighters, in the liberation armies, who then come to power, and become as bad if not worse than the former colonial power.

But out of interest, i think i read about how in Russia, when there was a vote for the favourite leader ( or something similar) Stalin was going to come first but was put to third. Or just came out straight third. Does this mean life was better under Stalin, or that what Stalin did was justified.

People who defend the British empire need only answer one thing. Was it justified, what good it created does not matter. I dont think slavery was good because it gave us Hip hop and Raggae

Reply 470

Fashion Girl

Original post by MatureStudent36

Every Indian I've met actually acknowledges that India benefited from Empire. I've even met two who felt that it would benefit if we controlled it again to stop the political corruption. Jamaica did a poll not to long back with some rather shocking facts. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009487/We-stayed-Britain-Shock-poll-reveals-60-Jamaicans-think-theyd-better-colony.html Good and bad happens no matter where you look, and depending on how you wish to interpret those events. We have a high degree of people within the UK who like to self depricate the UK. They get a bit of a shock though when they actually speak to those people who come from those countries or live in them. The UK is still well respected on the world stage. After all, we left pretty much all colonies in a better position than they were in before with transport infrastructure, a judiciary and legal system and functioning governments. Some from those argue that we didn't. But scratch the surface and a lot of those people (Mugabe) need to create a myth that the bad things happening now through poor governance are somebody elses fault.

Thats some interesting history about India. I'm not really familiar with South East Asian history tbh so can't form a good assessment of how popular the British Empire was amongst people in the region. Most of the countries are better off than they were before Britain had conquered them. Anybody who argues with that is just totally clueless about history.

Original post by Lemon Andersen

Just out of interest, so if the colonial project did 'benefit' people, in terms of increased life expetancy, gave them roads, hospitals ,schools, ect. At the cost of the their freedom, and a bit of blood shed here and there it would be justified ? Although you do have a point, a lot of dictators in Africa justify their actions on the grounds that they are doing what they are against Western Imperialism. Its often the ones who were fighters, in the liberation armies, who then come to power, and become as bad if not worse than the former colonial power. But out of interest, i think i read about how in Russia, when there was a vote for the favourite leader ( or something similar) Stalin was going to come first but was put to third. Or just came out straight third. Does this mean life was better under Stalin, or that what Stalin did was justified. People who defend the British empire need only answer one thing. Was it justified, what good it created does not matter. I dont think slavery was good because it gave us Hip hop and Raggae

Yes, I think the British Empire is justified and its justified because of the good they did in the world. Music movements borne out of mass economic depression is a totally different thing - since when does mass economic depression help anybody ?!?! Pax Brittanica helped farmers in the Caribbean islands to harvest lucrative produce, such as rice and sugar cane. The weather there is so hot and the work is back-breaking but at least it bears fruit. I felt so terrible when I read about it in one my favourite history books ever on the British Empire - British Empire by Trevor Lloyd, I'm still reading the book. I know that the British Empire was largely profit-minded, as well as being extremely territorial. I mean they had made rules such that one land could not trade with another land, neighbouring land, and that all of the trade was to get on the ships and come straight to Britain. You could argue that this was only fair because the British were providing all the means to sow a harvest in the first place, and the farmers of those Caribbean islands certainly didn't seem to mind, but that really is because many of them didn't even have any clue regarding their neighbours. The part about Africa is certainly new to me. As far as Stalin is concerned, yes life with Stalin in power was terrible, but that doesn't take away the fact that Stalin oversaw industrialization in Russia.

:fuhrer:

The country was falling apart pre-Stalin. First with the Romanovs and then with Lenin and all the Bolshevism. I know much of the industrialization was achieved on hard labour, and there were very strict rules about what was permitted in Russia and what was just plain going against the government but the country did prosper. Modern-day Russia is such a poor imitation of Stalin-Russia IMO, even though I guess many would loooooooooove to disagree with that.