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Reply 260
Original post by Morgsie
We should stick to the 2014 troop withdrawal deadline, earlier if it could be done. Regarding Foreign Intervention, UNSC Resolution and backing.

The Eurozone, we are not part of it and it is in our national interest that the Eurozone survives because most of our trade is done with the Euro. We are part of the IMF.


Why not just an immediate withdrawal?
How many votes were in the last election? 383 in the current one as I write now...
Reply 262
Original post by mevidek
Why not just an immediate withdrawal?


Half a Job, we should leave when the Afghan Army and Police are trained
Original post by orcprocess
It's good you want to improve technology but huge amounts of manpower is necessary if we ever want to have a ground based mission. Furthermore we have troops based in about 30 different countries in the world at the moment and we need troops for ceremonial duties, in reserve etc.


I think you're stretching things pretty far when you say "we need troops for ceremonial duties". When we're trying to save money, pointless ceremony should be the first thing to go. Additionally, retreating those troops from those 30 countries, where possible, should be a priority. We do not maintain an army for an army's sake, we do so for defence of the nation, and that means non-essential troops and missions should not be undertaken.
Original post by Morgsie
Half a Job, we should leave when the Afghan Army and Police are trained


I agree. Nice to know your line of logic, though.
Reply 265
Original post by Morgsie
Half a Job, we should leave when the Afghan Army and Police are trained


Can the leader of the Lib Dems explain to me why tax payers' money should be spent abroad? Why not just use it domestically?
Original post by xXedixXx
But the same doesn't go for Labour?

If you're not a hypocrite you'd remove the picture of Monsieur Miliband.

I am a hypocrite, it is one of my amazing qualities that the ladies love :colone:
Original post by TopHat
Says the person whose signature features Ed Miliband.

Sneaky edit aye?
Original post by mevidek
Okay, let us consider what you've done so far in our last term: you simply put up a fight to any bill that the government wrote, meaning that there was a state of nothing-ness, and some of your bills/motions were very unfair for the working-class.

AND GET ED MILIBAND OUT OF YOUR DAMN SIG!!!

Unfair to the working class? you mean those that do not work aka lazy sods. The working class in-fact benefit from all our plans :biggrin:

But Ed Miliband signifies the incompetence that is Labour's current leader :tongue:
Original post by Morgsie
We should stick to the 2014 troop withdrawal deadline, earlier if it could be done. There should also be diplomatic efforts aswell. Regarding Foreign Intervention, UNSC Resolution and backing.

The Eurozone, we are not part of it and it is in our national interest that the Eurozone survives because most of our trade is done with the Euro. We are part of the IMF.


OK, thanks :smile:

More generally for a newbie like me, where do the TSR Liberal Democrats stand in relation to the real Lib Dems are concerned? More economically left or right, more socially liberal or conservative etc.? :smile:
Reply 268
Original post by mevidek
Can the leader of the Lib Dems explain to me why tax payers' money should be spent abroad? Why not just use it domestically?


We have International Commitments regarding International Aid, the Millennium Development Goals etc.

We went into Afghanistan to do a job and we should complete it
Original post by DebatingGreg
How many votes were in the last election? 383 in the current one as I write now...


http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1809110&page=17&p=34589165&highlight=election%202011#post34589165

You can see here. 478.
Reply 270
Original post by DebatingGreg
OK, thanks :smile:

More generally for a newbie like me, where do the TSR Liberal Democrats stand in relation to the real Lib Dems are concerned? More economically left or right, more socially liberal or conservative etc.? :smile:


Were to the left of the RL Party. I am a centrist LD though even though some people are saying that I am Orange Booker.
Reply 271
Original post by tehFrance
I am a hypocrite, it is one of my amazing qualities that the ladies love :colone:

Sneaky edit aye?

Unfair to the working class? you mean those that do not work aka lazy sods. The working class in-fact benefit from all our plans :biggrin:

But Ed Miliband signifies the incompetence that is Labour's current leader :tongue:


Well don't have a go at me for talking about how the real life rule of the Tories is going absolutely ****e.

No, I do not mean the "lazy sods" of Britain. The Working Class do not, at all, benefit from your 'Living Wage' motion, for instance. Instead of giving people the kick-start they need, you're throwing them into the deep end in one of the most economically hardest times in recent history. Your motion screws over workers, and the unemployed.
Tories <3 tuition fees
Lib Dems <3 tuition fees


Vote Labour!
Original post by TopHat
I think you're stretching things pretty far when you say "we need troops for ceremonial duties". When we're trying to save money, pointless ceremony should be the first thing to go. Additionally, retreating those troops from those 30 countries, where possible, should be a priority. We do not maintain an army for an army's sake, we do so for defence of the nation, and that means non-essential troops and missions should not be undertaken.


Let us imagine that for some reason France has decided to invade the Island of Jersey (a Crown Dependency) with 100 soldiers who are now stationed on the island.

The standard operating figure for an infantry assault is 3:1 (One to cover, one to kill and one as a spare). So Britain organises an assault group of 300 infantrymen. These 300 men have to be transported on the amphibious carrier HMS Albion. HMS Albion requires a crew of 325 sailors. Of course, we cannot just send infantry, embarked with them are one artillery gun (6 men), a fire control team (2 men), an engineer platoon (30 men), a logistics support unit (250 men), a mechanical team (12 men) and a field hospital (300 men).

Unfortunately HMS Albion now has her full capacity of 800 embarked troops. This means that her sister ship - HMS Bulwark (also with a complement of 325 sailors) has to be mobilised. The assault troops require intelligence so a intelligence cell must be embarked (12 men), a Human Resources unit must be in place (20 men), a section of military police must be present (10 men), a signals squadron (150 men) and finally (for the army at least) the battlegroup padre.

Of course, HMS Bulwark and HMS Albion cannot sail alone. They must be part of a fleet of ships in support. To this end the following ships are mobilised: HMS Daring (195 sailors), HMS Dauntless (195 sailors), HMS Argyll (185 sailors), HMS Iron Duke (185 sailors), HMS Kent (185 sailors), HMS Cornwall (250 sailors), HMS Astute (98 sailors), HMS Ledbury (45 sailors) and HMS Bangor (45 sailors). These ships will need support ships to refuel and re-arm them and so the support ships RFA Wave Knight (72 sailors), RFA Fort Austin (195 sailors), RFA Fort George (288 sailors) and RFA Diligence (185 sailors) are mobilised.

It need not be said that these ships will require air cover. Thus HMS Illustrious (1051 sailors and airmen) is mobilised. Of course, this means that there must be at least one Joint Tactical Air Control team (4 men). Finally the task force must have helicopter support in the form of HMS Ocean (465 sailors) who can move the troops (via helicopter) to where they need to be and can carry some extra supplies.

So, in order to dislodge 100 Frenchmen for the Island of Jersey we would require about 5386 troops - and I didn't include the support troops back in the UK. Unfortunately, people don't tend to invade with a mere 100 men. In the Falklands I believe the total Argentine presence was something around the 13,000 mark. As you no doubt see, the numbers quickly stack up.

I hope at the very least to have given some of you an appreciation of how many people are required to undertake even small military operations; so let’s not have any more of this stupid, "the army is too big" nonsense.


What do you think of this?
Reply 274
Original post by Morgsie
We have International Commitments regarding International Aid, the Millennium Development Goals etc.

We went into Afghanistan to do a job and we should complete it


And what was our job? Surely it was simply to get Bin Laden, as was initially told to the public?
Reply 275
Original post by Maddog Jones
Tories <3 tuition fees
Lib Dems <3 tuition fees


Vote Labour!


We want to lower them, stop mixing RL with TSR
Original post by mevidek
Well don't have a go at me for talking about how the real life rule of the Tories is going absolutely ****e.

Your motion screws over workers, and the unemployed.

And you think that Labour could do better? don't make me laugh, you deluded lefties will spend, spend, spend and bring ruin to this country as you did during the later years of Blair and entire of Brown's term.

It is not my motion and I have zero opinion on it, I also abstained during the vote.
Reply 277
Original post by mevidek
And what was our job? Surely it was simply to get Bin Laden, as was initially told to the public?


Good question, the definitions have changed. It was originally to remove Al Queda then the RL Labour Government changed it.
Reply 278
Original post by Maddog Jones
Tories <3 tuition fees
Lib Dems <3 tuition fees


Vote Labour!


Tories </3 normal people
Lib Dems =/= reality
Libertarians =/= freedom
Socialists =/= active or realistic
JPKC =/= good leader
UKIP = crazy nationalist nutters
5386 British troops for 100 Frenchmen? If you're suggesting the British army should honestly operate on the grounds it should have a 53.86:1 ratio for every single military operation, you are out of your mind.

EDIT: I'm rather tired at the moment. I'll go through your post in more detail showing why it is wrong later. Don't worry. :wink:
(edited 12 years ago)

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