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Are you glad to hear O-Levels are coming back? POLL

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No, I think it's ridiculous and pointless. Apparently they're making them 'a lot harder' - what, because they were so easy before? I think adults need to realise that GCSE's haven't gotten a lot easier over the past however many years, and maybe a lot of people have just worked harder...

Exactly, very true.

Reply 181

wibletg

What people don't seem to realise is that the O level and CSE system is similar to the one we have already...

O level - Higher GCSE
CSE - Foundation GCSE

I know people who've been failed by the current system (entered for Foundation, got 100% UMS, only got a C) so I can't see any difference.

Reply 182

Brownie anyone?

Need to sort out the teaching in this country before GCSEs get harder. I have had sooo many teachers that were incapable of even controlling a class, let alone having the ability to, or even really be bothered to teach the syllabus.

Reply 183

priscilla

I've done my GCSE's and with the exception of the foreign language ones I think they were perfectly tough enough. It is true that I'm mildly autistic and of course this made it harder for me but I think that everyone should have a chance. Furthermore, it is simply not true that top students are not differentiated enough, under 10 percent of candidates in each subject get an A*, C's are still the most commonly achieved grade closely followed by both B's AND D's. I needed an in-class assistant to help me with maths (I have a form of autism which is different from Aspergers) and had to put in a huge amount of effort for GCSE. If it they had been much harder like the O-levels, I would probably have failed no matter how much I struggled. I might even have ended up in a care home rather than getting into university. Everyone should have a chance, the fuss about GCSE is ridiculous and if something much harder is coming back I'm just glad it's coming back too late for me!

Reply 184

hasaniuddin

I think O-levels are a threat to current people who have just recently sat thier final GCSE exams. I think it is an absolute waste of time and instead of prospering this is going to make the entire Britain sink in to utter devastation.

Ask me? One of the most stupidest plans to make. And they wonder why employment is so high.

Reply 185

Theafricanlegend

what difference are they?

Reply 186

scottstacey

Original post by iheartdjokovic

Why can't Gove just make GCSEs more challenging, have only one exam board and get rid of modular exams without changing the name? I don't see how separating people at 14 and not allowing the pupils who are deemed 'less able' to even try to get the same standard qualifications as the people who passed some arbitrary test is anything other than backward, unfair and completely going against social mobility.

It's only the media who are calling them O-Levels. Gove said they would be similar to O-Levels but didn't say they were going to be called O-Levels. And what you say about less able not getting as good a qualification that already happens with stupid people taking foundation GCSEs. I also believe that the arbitrary test you're describing was what increased social mobility by giving working class students the opportunity to get the Grammar School education hence why the amount of students from public schools at university is increasing and state schools decreasing. If somebody can't be ****ed to pass a simple test it's their own fault.

Reply 187

scottstacey

The suggestion being made by some people that GCSEs are hard enough is absurd to me all they seem to be are memory tests which anyone can pass by simply reading the revision guides the night before

Reply 188

Scary Third

The last thing we need is yet another change to the education system. Already things like the I-Bac and IGCSE are not recognised by all Universities, leaving some people at a disadvantage.
Many studies seem to be going back and forth on the difficulty of current GCSEs: "Most parents are unable to get a C in current science papers" and "are pupils getting smarter, or are exams getting easier?"
I have asked teachers what they think about the current system and they believe that it has nothing to do with the overall intelligence of people, but the fact that pupils are rigorously trained to answer exam questions in the correct way. In a way they are really a test to see who can revise best, not who is most intelligent.
I don't think the system could ever be fixed to help all types of people, but I really don't want another reform and O-levels. They are really the same as today but with a different name.

Reply 189

fluteflute

Original post by Scary Third

The last thing we need is yet another change to the education system. Already things like the I-Bac and IGCSE are not recognised by all Universities, leaving some people at a disadvantage.

Just wondering what your source for that is?

Reply 190

caroline97

The failure to correctly use apostrophes suggests that something in the education system needs to be improved upon. Whether that is by returning to a system that tested only memory (is it really so different today?) or by taking more radical steps is to be debated at length. Hint : GCSE's does not have a missing letter and is not possesive. It does not require an apostrophe.

Reply 191

jfranks

Original post by ForKicks

If you removed foundation papers, you would have kids leaving school with no qualifications ... so there needs to be a way they can get something recognisable on paper, even if they were to go down the vocational route.

but foundation limits your top grade to a C anyway so surely it is better to do a universal paper with the possibility of getting higher even if u do end up getting that same C either way. but of course there should always the vocational training option

Reply 192

Herr

Essentially it is just rebranding the current system into something else, end of the day it will be the same thing just a different name.

Good or bad? I think it is a good thing, but before they introduce such a thing they should improve the quality of teachers and amend it in such a way that crap teachers CAN receive the sack, currently unions prevent such things from happening, somewhat ludicrous one of the most important professions out there and yet bad ones are protected in such rigour.

Reply 193

Studentus-anonymous

Maybe we should have a system that awards on the basis of course-work combined?

I don't know about the practicality of that but it always seemed silly basing an entire future off of one set of exams.

On the other hand a lot of people whining about how 'exams are too easy' or 'it's just about memorizing'. DUH of course an exam is about memorizing.

Most education is basically knowledge, you learn something so you can regurgitate it in the future, this notion there is some mystical alchemist style 'secrets' to the 'art' of wisdom is daft.

As for more vocational/applied subjects like maths, if you can get a good grade in a maths exam it means you've managed to get hold of a cheat-sheet or more likely you're just good at math.

Regardless I don't know about two or more tier education system, it's already a case that education seems split between the haves and have-nots. Having a two tier system that labels the socio-economically less fortunate and the fortunates doesn't help close the disparity gap.

I'm basically torn, on the one hand I believe people should accept their limits, not everyone is destined for greatness, but I also believe people have the right to see exactly where their limits lay and to pursue them accordingly.

It's one thing to say to someone in hindsight that they're obviously not very academic/hyper intelligent and they would probably be happier in a system that accepts their 'mediocrity', and then to say to someone who could actually achieve much more that they are stuck because for whatever reasons they never achieved the kind of grades/tier that they could have in a perfect world.

Tricky issue, but with those issues considered it's probably best to just simply stick with a fair all inclusive system.

The problems in education were never about grades anyway but the actual education. Most poor performers are probably down to the socio-economic situations they find themselves in and the quality of education they are getting.

A student at an inner city school has probably lived a life that overall disincentives achievement before they even get to exams compared to a more suburban middle-class school pupil who may have been pushed and supported since birth.

Reply 194

Ham22

I think the issue of classroom discipline is a bigger problem than gcses being 'too easy'. We need to push back against the cultural ethos of 'my precious, innocent child' if we want to see standards improve. The same goes for lessons serving as an extension of x-box time.

Reply 195

bj_945

Yes, the GCSE's were far too easy. In my school the only thing differentiating pupils was the number of A*s they got-ranging from 3-10. The question at my school was, "How many did you get?" It was assumed no-one got a B. Indeed, last year at that school there were apparently only 2 Bs in the entire school. And the exams are still getting easier. The whole thing has become a joke. More importantly than the lack of proper differentiation between pupils at the higher end of the system (who are the ones who are meant to be getting university places on the basis of these grades) is the fact they don't teach you anything because the subject matter had been so dummed down. They failed to educate, and failed to stimulate. No-one took them seriously as an educational programme, we just felt we were being patronised by them. The whole thing therefore became a game whereby everyone tried to do the least possible work and play the system to get their A*s.

The new system may be no better, or it may create different problems. We won't really know until it's been implemented. But tbh, it can't be much worse.

Reply 196

bj_945

Also, course work is just a way for Private schools to bend the rules and get better grades. Coursework should be eliminated-it's totally unfair.

Reply 197

CharliePhillips

I thought they were just changing the format to be similar to O-levels I didn't realise they were ditching GCSE's and put back O-Levels in there place?!!! :eek:

Reply 198

Carnationlilyrose

I've taught CSE, O levels, 16+ and GCSE over the last 30 years. None of them is perfect, largely because they are devised by politicians and not people who deal with students. Equally, none is without its merits. I'm glad to be heading for retirement.

Reply 199

Presenttime

I don't think anyone who is going to sit O Levels will be happy they've made it harder- however, they might be pleasantly surprised at how doing well is so much more fulfilling when your peers aren't so successful with harder exams.