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Is a 2:1, 2:2 and even 3rd class oxbridge degree looked favorably upon then a 1st
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Original post by Powersymphonia
The university demanding the highest grades for entry isn't necessarily going to be the best one though.
I guess not, but:
a) Unquestionably people at different universities sit different exams, and universities have different average ability levels, so your comparison with Eton and A Levels was absurd to say the least;
b) I'm pretty sure people with good A Levels tend to go to the best universities. You could look at a league table and see if there's a general trend in league table position and average entry UCAS points. I suppose I could look, but I'm feeling lazy.
(This is all a bit irrelevant to the question the OP was asking anyway... Sorry OP, lol. )
A 2.1 from Oxford will still get you to a lot of places.
A 2.2 or a Third is far more difficult really. Though it depends on the subject. Employers know, for example, how difficult Maths at Cambridge is and I gather that there a reasonable chunk of the year group may get a 2.2 (this is what I've read from other Tab posters on here). So in some cases, it wouldn't necessarily completely rule you out of prospective high-flying jobs
A 2.2 or a Third is far more difficult really. Though it depends on the subject. Employers know, for example, how difficult Maths at Cambridge is and I gather that there a reasonable chunk of the year group may get a 2.2 (this is what I've read from other Tab posters on here). So in some cases, it wouldn't necessarily completely rule you out of prospective high-flying jobs
Original post by Chief Wiggum
I guess not, but:
a) Unquestionably people at different universities sit different exams, and universities have different average ability levels, so your comparison with Eton and A Levels was absurd to say the least;
b) I'm pretty sure people with good A Levels tend to go to the best universities. You could look at a league table and see if there's a general trend in league table position and average entry UCAS points. I suppose I could look, but I'm feeling lazy.
(This is all a bit irrelevant to the question the OP was asking anyway... Sorry OP, lol. )
a) Unquestionably people at different universities sit different exams, and universities have different average ability levels, so your comparison with Eton and A Levels was absurd to say the least;
b) I'm pretty sure people with good A Levels tend to go to the best universities. You could look at a league table and see if there's a general trend in league table position and average entry UCAS points. I suppose I could look, but I'm feeling lazy.
(This is all a bit irrelevant to the question the OP was asking anyway... Sorry OP, lol. )
The way to solve this debate would be to conduct an experiment. An anonymous final year undergraduate paper from each course should be sent to each university or university centre that offers the course in Britain for marking. The paper must then be marked against the university's own marking criteria and given a score. It would be interesting to compare the scores to see how much variation there would be between the marks.
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
A 2.1 from Oxford will still get you to a lot of places.
A 2.2 or a Third is far more difficult really. Though it depends on the subject. Employers know, for example, how difficult Maths at Cambridge is and I gather that there a reasonable chunk of the year group may get a 2.2 (this is what I've read from other Tab posters on here). So in some cases, it wouldn't necessarily completely rule you out of prospective high-flying jobs
A 2.2 or a Third is far more difficult really. Though it depends on the subject. Employers know, for example, how difficult Maths at Cambridge is and I gather that there a reasonable chunk of the year group may get a 2.2 (this is what I've read from other Tab posters on here). So in some cases, it wouldn't necessarily completely rule you out of prospective high-flying jobs
Agree with this. I do maths at Cambridge and the way it's marked means about 20% of the year get 2.ii's or below every year, and I know it's the same with most natsci courses and medicine. These are people who got straight A's all through school. It gets quite difficult to find internships / jobs, and I know a lot of people who've been rejected from a lot of places without interview, probably at least partially because of grades.
Original post by milienhaus
Agree with this. I do maths at Cambridge and the way it's marked means about 20% of the year get 2.ii's or below every year, and I know it's the same with most natsci courses and medicine. These are people who got straight A's all through school. It gets quite difficult to find internships / jobs, and I know a lot of people who've been rejected from a lot of places without interview, probably at least partially because of grades.
Yeah, I feel sorry for the people getting 2.2s due to the marking distributions, it's really unfair.
There'd obviously be anomalies; if someone got a first from LSE in Economics they would be ahead of any similar Oxbridge candidate with a 2.1 and way ahead of anyone with a 2.2
(edited 12 years ago)
A 2:1 from Oxbridge (or a similar university like Imperial/LSE/etc) will usually look better than a first from a non-Russell group university. A 2:2 generally won't though, and a third obviously not. if youre talking about an Oxbridge 2:1 vs (eg) a first from somewhere like Bristol or Edinburgh then thats much harder to say, and it will come down to the specifics of the employer and yourself. Remember that the degree only gets you the interview, and once youre in there you will be judged based on how you perform.
If you go somewhere like Oxbridge then it often doesn't matter whether you get a first -- as long as you have a 2:1 you'll get interviews, and getting the job will come down to your performance, along with extracurriculars/presentation/etc. A first might give you a small advantage, but I doubt its that much. The only time it might matter is for Ph.D funding in some non-science subjects where I think scholarships/etc sometimes require firsts (and I dont know whether they take university quality into account).
There will be no practical difference between a 2:1 from LSE and a 2:1 from Oxbridge in most cases, it only starts to matter once you have a significant gap in university quality. Maybe some small companies will only target Oxbridge, but for most jobs/phds/etc its not going to make a difference.
If you go somewhere like Oxbridge then it often doesn't matter whether you get a first -- as long as you have a 2:1 you'll get interviews, and getting the job will come down to your performance, along with extracurriculars/presentation/etc. A first might give you a small advantage, but I doubt its that much. The only time it might matter is for Ph.D funding in some non-science subjects where I think scholarships/etc sometimes require firsts (and I dont know whether they take university quality into account).
Original post by TheMeister
There'd obviously be anomalies; if someone got a first from LSE in Economics they would be ahead of any similar Oxbridge candidate with a 2.1 and way ahead of anyone with a 2.2
There will be no practical difference between a 2:1 from LSE and a 2:1 from Oxbridge in most cases, it only starts to matter once you have a significant gap in university quality. Maybe some small companies will only target Oxbridge, but for most jobs/phds/etc its not going to make a difference.
(edited 12 years ago)
Depends where you want to work. Employers generally look for someone who will fit into their organisation. At some companies I've worked for a 1st from Oxbridge would be a definite disadvantage.
Original post by THECHOOSENONE
Out of interest, I was just wondering whether a 2:1, 2:2 and a 3rd class degree from oxbridge is looked favorably upon by employers, then a 1st class degree from a top 50 UK university, in most subjects but particularly law, medicine, economics and history.
A 2:ii in law, even at Oxford or Cambridge, will rule you out of a great many law jobs--in particular jobs at city law firms. A first in law is *much* better than a 2:ii in law.
Of course, if you look at the commercial/public/chancery bar most tenants have a first from Oxford or Cambridge, plus usually a masters. But when it comes to law firms, a 2:i will usually leave you in play provided you took it at a decent uni. A 2:ii is difficult. A 3rd (in your final classification, anyway) is probably a kiss of death.
No, and your question doesn't make any sense (as it is written).
Original post by Bubblyjubbly
You're all missing the mark, I'm afraid.
Any Oxbridge 2.1 would have achieved a 1st anywhere else (including Imperial/LSE), that's why they are chosen; a 2.2 might have done which is why an Oxbridge 2.2, with the exception of Law, gives you a decent chance in most graduate schemes - I could give you lists of Oxbridge 2.2s who have, in recent years, secured top graduate jobs in banks and other leading financial services firms. The truth of the matter is that we have seen a number of people leave Oxbridge after or during the first year, not being able to take it, and ending up with firsts at places like Imperial. The joker who thinks that a first from LSE is comparable needs to stop dreaming - it's nowhere near. The Cambridge Economics Faculty has found that those with 2.1s from Oxbridge are outscoring firsts from the next best universities in their MPhil courses - Oxbridge and Imperial/LSE aren't remotely similar, sorry.
Any Oxbridge 2.1 would have achieved a 1st anywhere else (including Imperial/LSE), that's why they are chosen; a 2.2 might have done which is why an Oxbridge 2.2, with the exception of Law, gives you a decent chance in most graduate schemes - I could give you lists of Oxbridge 2.2s who have, in recent years, secured top graduate jobs in banks and other leading financial services firms. The truth of the matter is that we have seen a number of people leave Oxbridge after or during the first year, not being able to take it, and ending up with firsts at places like Imperial. The joker who thinks that a first from LSE is comparable needs to stop dreaming - it's nowhere near. The Cambridge Economics Faculty has found that those with 2.1s from Oxbridge are outscoring firsts from the next best universities in their MPhil courses - Oxbridge and Imperial/LSE aren't remotely similar, sorry.
Go on.
Original post by Bubblyjubbly
You're all missing the mark, I'm afraid.
Any Oxbridge 2.1 would have achieved a 1st anywhere else (including Imperial/LSE), that's why they are chosen; a 2.2 might have done which is why an Oxbridge 2.2, with the exception of Law, gives you a decent chance in most graduate schemes - I could give you lists of Oxbridge 2.2s who have, in recent years, secured top graduate jobs in banks and other leading financial services firms. The truth of the matter is that we have seen a number of people leave Oxbridge after or during the first year, not being able to take it, and ending up with firsts at places like Imperial. The joker who thinks that a first from LSE is comparable needs to stop dreaming - it's nowhere near. The Cambridge Economics Faculty has found that those with 2.1s from Oxbridge are outscoring firsts from the next best universities in their MPhil courses - Oxbridge and Imperial/LSE aren't remotely similar, sorry.
Any Oxbridge 2.1 would have achieved a 1st anywhere else (including Imperial/LSE), that's why they are chosen; a 2.2 might have done which is why an Oxbridge 2.2, with the exception of Law, gives you a decent chance in most graduate schemes - I could give you lists of Oxbridge 2.2s who have, in recent years, secured top graduate jobs in banks and other leading financial services firms. The truth of the matter is that we have seen a number of people leave Oxbridge after or during the first year, not being able to take it, and ending up with firsts at places like Imperial. The joker who thinks that a first from LSE is comparable needs to stop dreaming - it's nowhere near. The Cambridge Economics Faculty has found that those with 2.1s from Oxbridge are outscoring firsts from the next best universities in their MPhil courses - Oxbridge and Imperial/LSE aren't remotely similar, sorry.
I read a post from an Oxford student a couple of days ago who said that a student he knew failed first year at Oxford (ie, got BELOW a third), then went to Nottingham and got the highest First in the year.
lol.
Original post by No Future
Medicine is pass/fail
And hospitals can't see which med school you went to on your app form
And hospitals can't see which med school you went to on your app form
Not true at all.
Original post by Hypocrism
Not true at all.
lol, it is true. Well, you can get Merit or Distinction at some places, but medical degrees aren't classified in the traditional sense.
Original post by Bubblyjubbly
You're all missing the mark, I'm afraid.
Any Oxbridge 2.1 would have achieved a 1st anywhere else (including Imperial/LSE), that's why they are chosen; a 2.2 might have done which is why an Oxbridge 2.2, with the exception of Law, gives you a decent chance in most graduate schemes - I could give you lists of Oxbridge 2.2s who have, in recent years, secured top graduate jobs in banks and other leading financial services firms. The truth of the matter is that we have seen a number of people leave Oxbridge after or during the first year, not being able to take it, and ending up with firsts at places like Imperial. The joker who thinks that a first from LSE is comparable needs to stop dreaming - it's nowhere near. The Cambridge Economics Faculty has found that those with 2.1s from Oxbridge are outscoring firsts from the next best universities in their MPhil courses - Oxbridge and Imperial/LSE aren't remotely similar, sorry.
Any Oxbridge 2.1 would have achieved a 1st anywhere else (including Imperial/LSE), that's why they are chosen; a 2.2 might have done which is why an Oxbridge 2.2, with the exception of Law, gives you a decent chance in most graduate schemes - I could give you lists of Oxbridge 2.2s who have, in recent years, secured top graduate jobs in banks and other leading financial services firms. The truth of the matter is that we have seen a number of people leave Oxbridge after or during the first year, not being able to take it, and ending up with firsts at places like Imperial. The joker who thinks that a first from LSE is comparable needs to stop dreaming - it's nowhere near. The Cambridge Economics Faculty has found that those with 2.1s from Oxbridge are outscoring firsts from the next best universities in their MPhil courses - Oxbridge and Imperial/LSE aren't remotely similar, sorry.
(edited 12 years ago)
If a given graduate scheme asks for a 2.1, it asks for a 2.1. Filling in an online application form will all too likely see your 2.2 autofiltered and dropped regardless of where it's from or what subject it's in. This will naturally vary from one employer to another, but a lot of the online forms (some of which I've filled in myself recently) expect you to say that you have a 2.1 or are expecting one and you have to click the box as a form of declaration.
I don't want to sound harsh, but a Third won't take you very far. Certainly not onto any graduate schemes.
The "Study absolutely anything at Oxbridge and be set for life" ship has sailed, I regret to say - unless Daddy has rich friends in high places at which point going to Oxbridge is a formality and a bit of a jolly because you're guaranteed work
. Even the IB spiv factories in the City are tightening up their degree requirements. You will also find that it's as little as 3-5 years in most careers before people stop caring about your degree or where it's from, as by that point it comes down to work experience and references/contacts. When viewed in that light, people will start to say that going to Oxbridge becomes a case of "Cool story, bro" as you find yourself on the same graduate scheme intake as the guy from Aberdeen and the girl from Southampton, or are two pay grades below the 2.2 from Manchester. Are you really better than them at that point?
Okay, where's this list then? And who's "we"? I can't be bothered dissecting the rest of this drivel so I'll leave that to others, if they can be bothered that is
But I do agree that LSE doesn't seem to be all that great. I've never been there, but I hear too many people moaning about it.
I don't want to sound harsh, but a Third won't take you very far. Certainly not onto any graduate schemes.
The "Study absolutely anything at Oxbridge and be set for life" ship has sailed, I regret to say - unless Daddy has rich friends in high places at which point going to Oxbridge is a formality and a bit of a jolly because you're guaranteed work
. Even the IB spiv factories in the City are tightening up their degree requirements. You will also find that it's as little as 3-5 years in most careers before people stop caring about your degree or where it's from, as by that point it comes down to work experience and references/contacts. When viewed in that light, people will start to say that going to Oxbridge becomes a case of "Cool story, bro" as you find yourself on the same graduate scheme intake as the guy from Aberdeen and the girl from Southampton, or are two pay grades below the 2.2 from Manchester. Are you really better than them at that point?Original post by Bubblyjubbly
You're all missing the mark, I'm afraid.
Any Oxbridge 2.1 would have achieved a 1st anywhere else (including Imperial/LSE), that's why they are chosen; a 2.2 might have done which is why an Oxbridge 2.2, with the exception of Law, gives you a decent chance in most graduate schemes - I could give you lists of Oxbridge 2.2s who have, in recent years, secured top graduate jobs in banks and other leading financial services firms. The truth of the matter is that we have seen a number of people leave Oxbridge after or during the first year, not being able to take it, and ending up with firsts at places like Imperial. The joker who thinks that a first from LSE is comparable needs to stop dreaming - it's nowhere near. The Cambridge Economics Faculty has found that those with 2.1s from Oxbridge are outscoring firsts from the next best universities in their MPhil courses - Oxbridge and Imperial/LSE aren't remotely similar, sorry.
Any Oxbridge 2.1 would have achieved a 1st anywhere else (including Imperial/LSE), that's why they are chosen; a 2.2 might have done which is why an Oxbridge 2.2, with the exception of Law, gives you a decent chance in most graduate schemes - I could give you lists of Oxbridge 2.2s who have, in recent years, secured top graduate jobs in banks and other leading financial services firms. The truth of the matter is that we have seen a number of people leave Oxbridge after or during the first year, not being able to take it, and ending up with firsts at places like Imperial. The joker who thinks that a first from LSE is comparable needs to stop dreaming - it's nowhere near. The Cambridge Economics Faculty has found that those with 2.1s from Oxbridge are outscoring firsts from the next best universities in their MPhil courses - Oxbridge and Imperial/LSE aren't remotely similar, sorry.
Okay, where's this list then? And who's "we"? I can't be bothered dissecting the rest of this drivel so I'll leave that to others, if they can be bothered that is
But I do agree that LSE doesn't seem to be all that great. I've never been there, but I hear too many people moaning about it.
(edited 12 years ago)
I haven't even been to university yet but,
based on my brother's experience, cambridge degrees are significantly harder. In fact, the final year determines your degree classification, the previous 2 years' grades are not taken into consideration - that makes it harder in itself. Many other unis give weighting to the first 2 years.
My older brother got a 3rd for his maths with physics degree at cambridge. Pretty weak, right?
He then went on to do a Masters at UCL in astrophysics and got a first with distinction - he actually achieved the highest grades ever awarded in history for his degree course. He is now doing a PhD at UCL and is doing very well.
In all fairness, his work ethic massively changed once he went to UCL, but it does show how even very capable students can get poor degrees from oxbridge as the level of work and difficulty is so much greater than that at any other uni
based on my brother's experience, cambridge degrees are significantly harder. In fact, the final year determines your degree classification, the previous 2 years' grades are not taken into consideration - that makes it harder in itself. Many other unis give weighting to the first 2 years.
My older brother got a 3rd for his maths with physics degree at cambridge. Pretty weak, right?
He then went on to do a Masters at UCL in astrophysics and got a first with distinction - he actually achieved the highest grades ever awarded in history for his degree course. He is now doing a PhD at UCL and is doing very well.
In all fairness, his work ethic massively changed once he went to UCL, but it does show how even very capable students can get poor degrees from oxbridge as the level of work and difficulty is so much greater than that at any other uni
Original post by Chief Wiggum
lol, it is true. Well, you can get Merit or Distinction at some places, but medical degrees aren't classified in the traditional sense.
We get graded in our first and second years as 1, 2:1, 2:2 or 3rd.
Original post by Hypocrism
We get graded in our first and second years as 1, 2:1, 2:2 or 3rd.
Same (you go to Cambridge as well?), but that's not the final medical degree. The 2nd MB stuff is just pass/fail, the classifications are for Tripos.
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