Marshalling a judge
Help, i am not oxbridge and i don't have a 2:1 so i have to make up some how for the fact that i want to a barrister
So
I was wondering if anyone can tell me how i can go about marshalling a judge ?
How do can one apply?
Who does one contact them to apply !
Thanks a bunch
So
I was wondering if anyone can tell me how i can go about marshalling a judge ?
How do can one apply?
Who does one contact them to apply !
Thanks a bunch
Scroll to see replies
Well for starters I would stop calling what you want to: 'marshalling a judge' and start thinking about 'shadowing a judge'! The former sounds archaic to say the leadst.
Well I know of loads of people that have shadowed barristers and solicitors to court but I know of only two people that have ever shadowed a judge. Its incredibly difficult to do. At this point I would really ask myself whether I should concentrate on trying to find a barrister to shadow instead.
I would start by submitting letters to local chambers and courts to see if anything pops up. If you are interested in being in court generally, then write a letter to your local court(s) asking whether there are any opportunities available for you. Again, if you are lucky, something might pop up.
I can't tell from the first line of your post, have you completed a law or non-law degree?
Well I know of loads of people that have shadowed barristers and solicitors to court but I know of only two people that have ever shadowed a judge. Its incredibly difficult to do. At this point I would really ask myself whether I should concentrate on trying to find a barrister to shadow instead.
I would start by submitting letters to local chambers and courts to see if anything pops up. If you are interested in being in court generally, then write a letter to your local court(s) asking whether there are any opportunities available for you. Again, if you are lucky, something might pop up.
I can't tell from the first line of your post, have you completed a law or non-law degree?
I marshalled a Judge recently, the tutor at my uni (Liverpool John Moores) has an arrangement with 2 of the Judges at the Queen Elizabeth II Crown Courts in Liverpool whereby the EU Law students do student marshalling (thats what he calls it!) with a Judge for 2 days.
But is marshalling/shadowing viewed with more favour than mini-pupillages? OP, I don't really think marshalling/shadowing/mini-pupillages are enough to GET you a pupillage as everyone has them, it is just that the ABSENCE of them may make you less likely to get pupillage...
I hate to say it... but with less than a 2.1 do you seriously think you stand a chance?
Marshalling is usually arranged by the four Inns of Court for members who are BVC students, and lots of BVC students do it having done mini-pupillages to bolster their CV. If you are lucky enough to know a judge then that is a way in. However I know some people who did write to their local Crown Court and got it that way, if that's any help. I did one arranged by my Inn in London and really enjoyed it. However I would focus more on mini-pupillages. Julia is right, Marshalling or mini pupillages by themselves will not get you a pupillage, or even an interview. I would suggest that entering (and doing well in!) mooting competitions etc. whilst doing the BVC will help more (though you still need at least one mini-pupillage), as these will be more unusual in the applications. chambers receive.
However if you don't have a 2:1 you will have a very tough time getting a pupillage (sorry, but it is true), though it is not impossible (I know someone who has).
However if you don't have a 2:1 you will have a very tough time getting a pupillage (sorry, but it is true), though it is not impossible (I know someone who has).
Hi sm11mp
I've just finished my LPC and started marshalling a Recorder whilst I was at university. It is a great talking point in interviews, as Tory_boy said, because it's a rare opportunity for someone to have been given and it shows you can organise yourself to get some rare experience and the end result is that you can converse with a member of the judiciary, Counsel and court staff and learn so much in just a short space of time (Judges can rarely give any more than a few days).
It helped that the judge was a friend of one of my tutors so I could do a good job at name-dropping, but I got in touch with HMCS who got in touch with the Crown Courts in my area and asked if marshalling was possible. Of course, I had to send my CV along with some references (you are learning one-on-one with a very important and time-constricted person who invariably will want to know who they're sharing their Chambers with- my judge loves to quiz me on why I want to be a solicitor and not join the bar!) Once my CV was looked over and I was deemed suitable, I was contacted by the court and given dates on which I could attend and the rest went from there! I return quite regularly and I'm in contact with my Judge every few months.
I think marshalling is so unique to have on a CV. Go for it! I was told by my judge that he prefers calling it marshalling as it sounds like a job title and that you contributed and were effective in your time; he said that shadowing just sounds like you were lurking in the background, unresponsive and coy. Up to you which you want to use!
hiljen22
I've just finished my LPC and started marshalling a Recorder whilst I was at university. It is a great talking point in interviews, as Tory_boy said, because it's a rare opportunity for someone to have been given and it shows you can organise yourself to get some rare experience and the end result is that you can converse with a member of the judiciary, Counsel and court staff and learn so much in just a short space of time (Judges can rarely give any more than a few days).
It helped that the judge was a friend of one of my tutors so I could do a good job at name-dropping, but I got in touch with HMCS who got in touch with the Crown Courts in my area and asked if marshalling was possible. Of course, I had to send my CV along with some references (you are learning one-on-one with a very important and time-constricted person who invariably will want to know who they're sharing their Chambers with- my judge loves to quiz me on why I want to be a solicitor and not join the bar!) Once my CV was looked over and I was deemed suitable, I was contacted by the court and given dates on which I could attend and the rest went from there! I return quite regularly and I'm in contact with my Judge every few months.
I think marshalling is so unique to have on a CV. Go for it! I was told by my judge that he prefers calling it marshalling as it sounds like a job title and that you contributed and were effective in your time; he said that shadowing just sounds like you were lurking in the background, unresponsive and coy. Up to you which you want to use!
hiljen22
Tory_boy
Well for starters I would stop calling what you want to: 'marshalling a judge' and start thinking about 'shadowing a judge'! The former sounds archaic to say the leadst.
Well I know of loads of people that have shadowed barristers and solicitors to court but I know of only two people that have ever shadowed a judge. Its incredibly difficult to do. At this point I would really ask myself whether I should concentrate on trying to find a barrister to shadow instead.
Well I know of loads of people that have shadowed barristers and solicitors to court but I know of only two people that have ever shadowed a judge. Its incredibly difficult to do. At this point I would really ask myself whether I should concentrate on trying to find a barrister to shadow instead.
As everyone else said, yes it is called marshalling!! (As 'shadowing a barrister' is a mini-pupillage). It's not at all archaic. Ask your lecturers or tutors if they can put you in contact with someone. Try local courts maybe. Also, Inns of Court.
EDIT: this an ancient thread!! How did it get resurrected?
sm11mp
Help, i am not oxbridge and i don't have a 2:1 so i have to make up some how for the fact that i want to a barrister
So
I was wondering if anyone can tell me how i can go about marshalling a judge ?
How do can one apply?
Who does one contact them to apply !
Thanks a bunch
So
I was wondering if anyone can tell me how i can go about marshalling a judge ?
How do can one apply?
Who does one contact them to apply !
Thanks a bunch
It's very difficult and you could only do it if you have at least one mini under your belt and you are half way through your final year, that's only to be considered!!!!
Then the judge from paper picks who he wants to be shadowed by.
Rigorous but fruitful, I'm not sure but I think it takes a small time off pupillage, don't hold me to it, I read it somewhere.
younglawyer
I'm not sure but I think it takes a small time off pupillage, don't hold me to it, I read it somewhere.
Again, don't quote me (you can tell we are all lawyers and covering our backs as we go) but I believe it can take time off your training contract, in the same way working at the CAB can. But you would have marshall for a longer period than just a few days!!
Once you join an inn they will set it up. No need for any prior experience such as minis. I have done it and did it this way, so have the correct experience and knowledge to share.
Certain marshalling with a high court judge for an extensive period of time can take a few weeks off a tc/ second six.
Certain marshalling with a high court judge for an extensive period of time can take a few weeks off a tc/ second six.
younglawyer
It's very difficult and you could only do it if you have at least one mini under your belt and you are half way through your final year, that's only to be considered!!!!
Then the judge from paper picks who he wants to be shadowed by.
Rigorous but fruitful, I'm not sure but I think it takes a small time off pupillage, don't hold me to it, I read it somewhere.
Then the judge from paper picks who he wants to be shadowed by.
Rigorous but fruitful, I'm not sure but I think it takes a small time off pupillage, don't hold me to it, I read it somewhere.
This doesn't seem right to me.
Call up the court you're interested in and get the relevant person on the phone, or at least their name. I spoke to a woman on the phone, who asked me to send my CV, checked my references and then asked me to pick a week that I'd like to go. Easy and straightforward.
ToTheBar
This doesn't seem right to me.
Call up the court you're interested in and get the relevant person on the phone, or at least their name. I spoke to a woman on the phone, who asked me to send my CV, checked my references and then asked me to pick a week that I'd like to go. Easy and straightforward.
Call up the court you're interested in and get the relevant person on the phone, or at least their name. I spoke to a woman on the phone, who asked me to send my CV, checked my references and then asked me to pick a week that I'd like to go. Easy and straightforward.
I have the e-mail to prove it, she said the judges in our circuit only consider people who are final years and BVC.
Does it depend on the area? - As in how competitive it is?...I'm not sure but I could paste the e-mail here if necessary.
younglawyer
I have the e-mail to prove it, she said the judges in our circuit only consider people who are final years and BVC.
Does it depend on the area? - As in how competitive it is?...I'm not sure but I could paste the e-mail here if necessary.
Does it depend on the area? - As in how competitive it is?...I'm not sure but I could paste the e-mail here if necessary.
I suppose it might vary depending on area actually yes. Mine was a southern Crown Court. So I guess the best way to find out is to call and ask the court you're interested in.
ToTheBar
I suppose it might vary depending on area actually yes. Mine was a southern Crown Court. So I guess the best way to find out is to call and ask the court you're interested in.
My one was in the midlands, so I'm guessing that could also play a part.
Thank you
I have marshalled two judges so far... one was a Circuit Judge, and another was an Appellate Judge.
I applied to the Circuit Judge in writing to his chambers in Court. He replied promptly with a hand-written letter inviting me to marshal. I would like to point out that Marshalling is not archaic just because it has been used for many years. It is still the term used by most judges. The letter centered around cases over which I had observed the Judge presiding, and this seemed to get me a long way. So top tip is to sit in court as much as possible in the public galleries.
With regard to the Appellate Judge, I met him at a Qualifying Session for the Inns of Court, happened to mention how much I love studying law and how I would love some marshalling opportunities, and next thing I know a date is set.
Have the balls to ask. The worst they can do is say no.
I applied to the Circuit Judge in writing to his chambers in Court. He replied promptly with a hand-written letter inviting me to marshal. I would like to point out that Marshalling is not archaic just because it has been used for many years. It is still the term used by most judges. The letter centered around cases over which I had observed the Judge presiding, and this seemed to get me a long way. So top tip is to sit in court as much as possible in the public galleries.
With regard to the Appellate Judge, I met him at a Qualifying Session for the Inns of Court, happened to mention how much I love studying law and how I would love some marshalling opportunities, and next thing I know a date is set.
Have the balls to ask. The worst they can do is say no.
Hi all, I do realise the posts on here are all old.. I thought this would be the ideal place for me to share my experience. I am currently a third year law student at BCU (Birmingham) I intend on doing the BPTC at City University, London September 2012.
I have gained/ secured the following legal experiences:
To date I have marshalled two judges, one at Birmingham crown court for three days, second at Bristol crown court for three days. I have also secured marshalling at the following courts:
Exeter crown court- I shall be marshalling the Recorder of Exeter for one week on a attempted murder case (i believe i am the first ever student to marshal a judge on such a serious case, please to correct me if any other student has ever done such case)
Bristol county court-I shall be marshalling a chancery QC judge for two days on a commercial dispute.
The Central Criminal Court also known as the Old Bailey- I shall be marshalling for one week with the ex Recorder of Cardiff.
I have also completed various other mini-pupillages at the following chambers:
Equity Chambers.
St-Philips (which was unofficial).
Lamb Building Chambers.
Chambers of Ayoub Khan.
I have also completed two summer vacation schemes:
Crown Prosecution Service.
Hussain Solicitors.
This goes to show that you do not have to be a Oxbridge student to gain such experiences- My message to all is try hard and never give up.
I have gained/ secured the following legal experiences:
To date I have marshalled two judges, one at Birmingham crown court for three days, second at Bristol crown court for three days. I have also secured marshalling at the following courts:
Exeter crown court- I shall be marshalling the Recorder of Exeter for one week on a attempted murder case (i believe i am the first ever student to marshal a judge on such a serious case, please to correct me if any other student has ever done such case)
Bristol county court-I shall be marshalling a chancery QC judge for two days on a commercial dispute.
The Central Criminal Court also known as the Old Bailey- I shall be marshalling for one week with the ex Recorder of Cardiff.
I have also completed various other mini-pupillages at the following chambers:
Equity Chambers.
St-Philips (which was unofficial).
Lamb Building Chambers.
Chambers of Ayoub Khan.
I have also completed two summer vacation schemes:
Crown Prosecution Service.
Hussain Solicitors.
This goes to show that you do not have to be a Oxbridge student to gain such experiences- My message to all is try hard and never give up.
Original post by alishah22
This goes to show that you do not have to be a Oxbridge student to gain such experiences- My message to all is try hard and never give up.
This goes to show that you do not have to be a Oxbridge student to gain such experiences- My message to all is try hard and never give up.
Congratulations, it sounds like a wide range of experience
However, I must state that securing work experience is by no means a refelction of getting pupillage. I secured 12/12 mini-pupillages (including top London sets) and know it would still be difficult as everyone has these.. Not sure how difficult it is to secure marshalling (so can't comment), but mini-pupillages don't require much work to get. I am not trying to say you haven't done well, just making aware the realities regarding mini-pupillage.
About 3 - 4 minis is fine - any more than this is overkill. It won't have a negative impact on your application but I don't think having a very large number of minis adds a lot and is only really useful for ones own development etc.
Marshalling is great. I have marshalled twice now, one arranged through my Inn and another through a contact. You really do get a different perspective on proceedings and notice things you would probably miss sitting in the public gallery. Talking to the judge afterwards is invaluable as well - I highly recommend it.
Phone your local court and ask to speak to the court manager, they will probably be useless at getting back to you so don't give up.
Marshalling is great. I have marshalled twice now, one arranged through my Inn and another through a contact. You really do get a different perspective on proceedings and notice things you would probably miss sitting in the public gallery. Talking to the judge afterwards is invaluable as well - I highly recommend it.
Phone your local court and ask to speak to the court manager, they will probably be useless at getting back to you so don't give up.
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