TSR's 2012 Tuition Fees Tracker - how much are universities charging in 2012?
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Original post by ultimate mashup
yes, the ones that have offered lower fees tend to be the lower ranked uni's aswell so with less money they're probably just gonna get worse. It may be an opportunity for East London university, one of the lowest ranking that is charging the maximum, to overtake all the other lower ranking unis to maybe become an average ranking university.
I meant more how mid-table to lower ranked unis feel about unis ranked lower than them charging more.
Whether places like Sheffield Hallam, Hertfordshire and Northumbria would have chosen to charge £9000 if they'd known that Edge Hill and UEL were going to.
Original post by LostInLaw
I meant more how mid-table to lower ranked unis feel about unis ranked lower than them charging more. Whether places like Sheffield Hallam, Hertfordshire and Northumbria would have chosen to charge £9000 if they'd known that Edge Hill and UEL were going to.
Whether places like Sheffield Hallam, Hertfordshire and Northumbria would have chosen to charge £9000 if they'd known that Edge Hill and UEL were going to.Yes I bet they would have. Hallam and Northumbria are just going to feel cheated if Edge Hill and UEL get their plans approved in July!
Original post by ultimate mashup
Yes I bet they would have. Hallam and Northumbria are just going to feel cheated if Edge Hill and UEL get their plans approved in July!
Edge Hill and UEL are almost certain to get their plans approved. The ones who will be having sleepless nights over this will be the likes of Durham.
What will worry Edge Hill and UEL is the prospect of the punters voting with their wallets and going elsewhere.
Original post by nulli tertius
Edge Hill and UEL are almost certain to get their plans approved. The ones who will be having sleepless nights over this will be the likes of Durham.
What will worry Edge Hill and UEL is the prospect of the punters voting with their wallets and going elsewhere.
What will worry Edge Hill and UEL is the prospect of the punters voting with their wallets and going elsewhere.
After the plans are approved, is that it for 2012?
Hypothetically, say OFFA react harshly and say that x, y and z universities can't charge the full £9000 because their access schemes aren't good enough etc. If the lower ranked universities already have wider access and are putting additional bursaries in place could we be looking at a situation in which the standard fees are higher at the lower ranked universities? A sort of reverse correlation between quality and price?
What do places like UEL do if that happens? Can they readjust their fees with the mindset that students will indeed go elsewhere if they can get better teaching for £1500 less? Or is just panic time for them as they realise their applications will likely drop substantially?
Original post by LostInLaw
After the plans are approved, is that it for 2012?
Hypothetically, say OFFA react harshly and say that x, y and z universities can't charge the full £9000 because their access schemes aren't good enough etc. If the lower ranked universities already have wider access and are putting additional bursaries in place could we be looking at a situation in which the standard fees are higher at the lower ranked universities? A sort of reverse correlation between quality and price?
What do places like UEL do if that happens? Can they readjust their fees with the mindset that students will indeed go elsewhere if they can get better teaching for £1500 less? Or is just panic time for them as they realise their applications will likely drop substantially?
Hypothetically, say OFFA react harshly and say that x, y and z universities can't charge the full £9000 because their access schemes aren't good enough etc. If the lower ranked universities already have wider access and are putting additional bursaries in place could we be looking at a situation in which the standard fees are higher at the lower ranked universities? A sort of reverse correlation between quality and price?
What do places like UEL do if that happens? Can they readjust their fees with the mindset that students will indeed go elsewhere if they can get better teaching for £1500 less? Or is just panic time for them as they realise their applications will likely drop substantially?
There is nothing to stop universities cutting prices but in reality it is difficult. Firstly it smacks of desperation and secondly what do you do about those who have accepted offers at a higher fees. Do they get the benefit of the price cut? If so, it becomes very expensive.
What may happen in practice is that under-subscribed universities start offering scholarships (i.e. non-means tested) to people who select them late in the admissions cycle, in extra or clearing. A high fee with a scholarship is a fee reduction by another name.
Original post by nulli tertius
Edge Hill and UEL are almost certain to get their plans approved. The ones who will be having sleepless nights over this will be the likes of Durham.
What will worry Edge Hill and UEL is the prospect of the punters voting with their wallets and going elsewhere.
What will worry Edge Hill and UEL is the prospect of the punters voting with their wallets and going elsewhere.
Bit in bold: Really? Why?
Original post by diamonddust
Bit in bold: Really? Why?
Presumably because they will have a difficult task, trying to convince the government that they are commited to widening access when, taking Queen's Campus out of the equation, Durham has the highest intake of independent school students of all universities in the country.
But with QC and a partners-type scheme they have introduced I'm not sure if they'll have too much to worry about....
Original post by diamonddust
Bit in bold: Really? Why?
Original post by River85
Presumably because they will have a difficult task, trying to convince the government that they are commited to widening access when, taking Queen's Campus out of the equation, Durham has the highest intake of independent school students of all universities in the country.
But with QC and a partners-type scheme they have introduced I'm not sure if they'll have too much to worry about....
But with QC and a partners-type scheme they have introduced I'm not sure if they'll have too much to worry about....
Every university will have convinced themselves that they either are or will be doing enough.
It is implausible that they will all be given an easy ride (as they were when OFFA was first created).
So it is a bit like picking the winner of the Grand National.
Which universities will be seen as arrogant, complacent, ineffectual, wasteful, ill-focused or skinflint?
Original post by LostInLaw
After the plans are approved, is that it for 2012?
Hypothetically, say OFFA react harshly and say that x, y and z universities can't charge the full £9000 because their access schemes aren't good enough etc. If the lower ranked universities already have wider access and are putting additional bursaries in place could we be looking at a situation in which the standard fees are higher at the lower ranked universities? A sort of reverse correlation between quality and price?
What do places like UEL do if that happens? Can they readjust their fees with the mindset that students will indeed go elsewhere if they can get better teaching for £1500 less? Or is just panic time for them as they realise their applications will likely drop substantially?
Hypothetically, say OFFA react harshly and say that x, y and z universities can't charge the full £9000 because their access schemes aren't good enough etc. If the lower ranked universities already have wider access and are putting additional bursaries in place could we be looking at a situation in which the standard fees are higher at the lower ranked universities? A sort of reverse correlation between quality and price?
What do places like UEL do if that happens? Can they readjust their fees with the mindset that students will indeed go elsewhere if they can get better teaching for £1500 less? Or is just panic time for them as they realise their applications will likely drop substantially?
My understanding is that between now and the 11th July (when OFFA will need to have fully approved any plans OFFA can go back to the universities to get them to rethink their plans and adjust them if they deem the university is not doing enough to attract students from different backgrounds.
I'm not sure how this will play out, whether we know a univeristy is readjusting their plans etc. I guess we might know if it turns out the final plans for a university are different those plans they have so far released. I wonder if some universities don't reveal their plans before July just in case they are forced to change them?
Harper Adams University to charge maximum £9000 fee
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/farming-north-wales/farming-news/2011/04/21/harper-adams-opts-for-maximum-9-000-a-year-tuition-fees-55578-28558279/
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/farming-north-wales/farming-news/2011/04/21/harper-adams-opts-for-maximum-9-000-a-year-tuition-fees-55578-28558279/
De Montford University to charge maximum £9000 fee
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Students-Montfort-face-maximum-tuition-fees/article-3468069-detail/article.html
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Students-Montfort-face-maximum-tuition-fees/article-3468069-detail/article.html
Just added Buckinghamshire New University (up to £7000-£8000) and the University of Sunderland (£7000, £7800 or £8500) to the map.
(edited 13 years ago)
What do you guys think of this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/21/tuition-fees-maths-student-access
Latest fees news is that the University of Chester want to charge £9000 fees.
Do you think the reports that over 35,000 places could be lost at universities to enable the Government to support the higher fee levels are something to worry over?
Do you think the reports that over 35,000 places could be lost at universities to enable the Government to support the higher fee levels are something to worry over?
Original post by RK
What do you guys think of this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/21/tuition-fees-maths-student-access
Pretty much sums it up - the gment decides it's going to let a market develop in tuition fees, then floods it with easy money (tuition loans) and slaps an artificial price cap on top - with the result we can see on the map.
Seems so silly of vince cable that I wonder if it's a bit of political theatre designed to make 'greedy' VC's carry the can for the government slashing student places... or maybe that's too much of a conspiracy theory and it really is an honest cock up.
To be fair, this is what I expected, and realistically it's what we need. People may disagree, but to ensure an international level of standard, university funding needs to increase. We're currently on the route of tuition fees, and there's no turning back, and people need to realise this.
The issue, however, is finding a solution to ensuring students are able to attend university without being excluded due to costs. This, however, does not mean removing the debt students will leave university with. There is nothing wrong with leaving with debt, and personally I'm beyond puzzlement as to why so many are fearful of leaving with debt. The repayments that students will make are meagre at most and will have no real impact on their day to day lives when in employment.
The most obvious way forward is through student loans, but of course with universities all charging the top end £9,000 amount, the government will have a shortfall of funds. That said, it's had a shortfall of funds since before tuition fees were introduced, and part of the reason why tuition fees were introduced was due to lack of funding for higher education. Additionally, it's not feasible to foster a 'saving' concept where parents save and invest for their children's university education as is the case in the US.
What is additionally wrong is how the government is trying to put caps on the number of international students coming into the UK for higher education. Those students pay far more than home students and thus cross-subsidise higher education. Many courses cost more than £3000 or even £9000. I read a recent report that tuition in Oxford/Cambridge can cost up to £15000 per student per year due to the one-on-one tuition. In other universities where one-on-one isn't present, the cost of scientific courses or resource-intensive courses is still more costly than £9000 per year per student.
Also, let's not forget that all this funding isn't just for teaching. It's also for the extra resources available to students on campus. It's for the libraries, it's for the subsidised on-campus gyms, it's for the maintenance of the buildings and everything else we take for granted on campus.
Many people may feel their course isn't worth £3000 per year, let alone £9000 a year, but it's important to realise that due to the current 'mess' we have gotten ourselves into, no one is just paying for their course, we're all in some ways paying for each other's courses and the whole package we receive on campus. It's not free to have a library, to have 24/7 security, or a careers office with extensive industry links. It's easy to say that I'm not getting a lot in terms of teaching for what I'm paying, but I am getting so much more than just that, and it's the whole package which does make the cost very much worth it.
The issue, however, is finding a solution to ensuring students are able to attend university without being excluded due to costs. This, however, does not mean removing the debt students will leave university with. There is nothing wrong with leaving with debt, and personally I'm beyond puzzlement as to why so many are fearful of leaving with debt. The repayments that students will make are meagre at most and will have no real impact on their day to day lives when in employment.
The most obvious way forward is through student loans, but of course with universities all charging the top end £9,000 amount, the government will have a shortfall of funds. That said, it's had a shortfall of funds since before tuition fees were introduced, and part of the reason why tuition fees were introduced was due to lack of funding for higher education. Additionally, it's not feasible to foster a 'saving' concept where parents save and invest for their children's university education as is the case in the US.
What is additionally wrong is how the government is trying to put caps on the number of international students coming into the UK for higher education. Those students pay far more than home students and thus cross-subsidise higher education. Many courses cost more than £3000 or even £9000. I read a recent report that tuition in Oxford/Cambridge can cost up to £15000 per student per year due to the one-on-one tuition. In other universities where one-on-one isn't present, the cost of scientific courses or resource-intensive courses is still more costly than £9000 per year per student.
Also, let's not forget that all this funding isn't just for teaching. It's also for the extra resources available to students on campus. It's for the libraries, it's for the subsidised on-campus gyms, it's for the maintenance of the buildings and everything else we take for granted on campus.
Many people may feel their course isn't worth £3000 per year, let alone £9000 a year, but it's important to realise that due to the current 'mess' we have gotten ourselves into, no one is just paying for their course, we're all in some ways paying for each other's courses and the whole package we receive on campus. It's not free to have a library, to have 24/7 security, or a careers office with extensive industry links. It's easy to say that I'm not getting a lot in terms of teaching for what I'm paying, but I am getting so much more than just that, and it's the whole package which does make the cost very much worth it.
Original post by .ACS.
To be fair, this is what I expected, and realistically it's what we need. People may disagree, but to ensure an international level of standard, university funding needs to increase. We're currently on the route of tuition fees, and there's no turning back, and people need to realise this.
To a point you are right but to play devil's advocate for a moment.
The government thinks, with some justice, that university administration is monumentally inefficient. Everybody likes to blame administrators at universities but a box ticking culture around academic administration has grown up in the last 15 years or so that is monumentally wasteful. One must remember that the CNAA validated all of the courses at over 20 Polytechnics with less bureaucracy than a single one of those institutions now generates to manage its own courses.
As you yourself point out fees pay for a lot of ancillary facilities and services around universities. How many of the mature or part-time students take advantage of those facilities? How many of the students living off campus do so? The government is trying to get the private sector involved in higher education provision supplying cheaper courses. The way they will do this is to cut out the frills.
The issue, however, is finding a solution to ensuring students are able to attend university without being excluded due to costs. This, however, does not mean removing the debt students will leave university with. There is nothing wrong with leaving with debt, and personally I'm beyond puzzlement as to why so many are fearful of leaving with debt. The repayments that students will make are meagre at most and will have no real impact on their day to day lives when in employment.
Don't think of this as debt. Think of this as a 9% additional income tax. Yes, it will have a real impact of lives and attitudes once it starts to be paid. This isn't my speculation. Very considerable efforts are made by businesses and workers in order to mitigate taxes on employment by a similar amount. If people are willing to arrange their whole businesses around mitigating this amount of tax, they feel it very keenly.
The most obvious way forward is through student loans, but of course with universities all charging the top end £9,000 amount, the government will have a shortfall of funds. That said, it's had a shortfall of funds since before tuition fees were introduced, and part of the reason why tuition fees were introduced was due to lack of funding for higher education. Additionally, it's not feasible to foster a 'saving' concept where parents save and invest for their children's university education as is the case in the US.
One can foster a savings concept. Give tax relief on savings schemes for university funds in the same way as there is tax relief on pension contributions.
What is additionally wrong is how the government is trying to put caps on the number of international students coming into the UK for higher education. Those students pay far more than home students and thus cross-subsidise higher education. Many courses cost more than £3000 or even £9000. I read a recent report that tuition in Oxford/Cambridge can cost up to £15000 per student per year due to the one-on-one tuition. In other universities where one-on-one isn't present, the cost of scientific courses or resource-intensive courses is still more costly than £9000 per year per student.
We have two competing policy objectives. First of all ignore the "bogus" colleges. They clog up the immigration debate and aren't really the point here. The staircase effect that is present in the UK immigration system means that there is a route from student to permanent resident over a period of years that involves no form of selection on the part of the British government. The points based system created by the last government merely creates a set of hurdles for an immigrant to jump. There is no selection process by the Home Office. To a large extent, a larger extent than universities are comfortable admitting, they having been selling admission to this staircase along with degrees. Some countries have openly sold their passports to foreigners. We haven't done that. We have given passports in return for immigrants making a relatively small contribution to higher education funding through student fees. What is now happening is a rebalancing of immigration policy but without an acknowledgement that this covert income stream to universities from immigration is being stopped.
Also, let's not forget that all this funding isn't just for teaching. It's also for the extra resources available to students on campus. It's for the libraries, it's for the subsidised on-campus gyms, it's for the maintenance of the buildings and everything else we take for granted on campus.
And for the Vice-Chancellor's new Axminster
Many people may feel their course isn't worth £3000 per year, let alone £9000 a year, but it's important to realise that due to the current 'mess' we have gotten ourselves into, no one is just paying for their course, we're all in some ways paying for each other's courses and the whole package we receive on campus. It's not free to have a library, to have 24/7 security, or a careers office with extensive industry links. It's easy to say that I'm not getting a lot in terms of teaching for what I'm paying, but I am getting so much more than just that, and it's the whole package which does make the cost very much worth it.
Libraries are always trotted out as a "desirable" cost. The library at Leeds Met costs £5,112,000 a year. There were in 2009/10 27,865 students (full and part-time, post-grad and undergrad). That is an average cost of £183.45 per student. Universities are not comfortable seeing their budgets pulled apart by function because it raises some difficult question as to where the money actually goes.
Original post by alienshex
This might have probably been asked before, but does anyone know whats going to happen with the NHS- paid courses next year?( Nursing, Radiography etc) Like, are they going to make us pay the tuition fees?
No decision has been made as to the future of NHS funding.
Original post by .ACS.
*
Here, here!
One small thing that annoyed me about your post was the americanism (i.e, use of "gotten").
Seriously though, completely agree with your post, we have far too much of a complaining culture in my view. People need to think about it logically and open-mindedly.
Still think the Tories and Mr. Clegg's yellow bandits are t0ssers, though
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