What do you think about France going socialist?

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Isn't the French Socialist Party more the equivalent of the British Labour Party or the German Social Democrats in the SPD, i.e. just another centre-left party? I don't get the hysteria.

Their tax is very extreme, I thought Britain's tax on the rich was ridiculous but France's socialist tax policies will drive away all industry/Entrepreneurial individuals, thus curbing the growth of the economy

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 21

internetguru

Original post by mimx

Bit different now that financial mobility is a reality. Couldn't exactly walk into Ye Olde Banke and get an offshore account in the Cayman Islands.

If I were in government I would make offshore banking illegal.

Reply 22

internetguru

Original post by The Patriot

France isn't really going socialist. It's a centre-left tax and spend ideology, not far from the Labour Party of the UK.

Besides, we (Europe) need a move to the left IMO.

European countries are the most left leaning in the developed world.

Reply 23

mimx

Original post by internetguru

If I were in government I would make offshore banking illegal.

I'm sure nobody ever thought of that before.

Reply 24

internetguru

Original post by mimx

I'm sure nobody ever thought of that before.

Well they obviously aren't doing a good job if people still do it. They obviously didn't have the capabilities that we have to send MI6 assassins to all corners of the globe.

Reply 25

The Patriot

Original post by internetguru

European countries are the most left leaning in the developed world.

And the point is?

*also, here are some left-wing countries that are definitely 'developed'
Communist - China - hugely developed. far more left-wing the any European country.
Socialist - Portugal
- Russia

(although I don't accept that development is fully relevant in every case, as some countries are very developed, but just not considered so due to different cultures).

Reply 26

Mishmashmoo

Original post by internetguru

Well they obviously aren't doing a good job if people still do it. They obviously didn't have the capabilities that we have to send MI6 assassins to all corners of the globe.

The thing is that they shouldn't be taxing them in this excessive way in the first place. I have no problem with people dodging tax because the tax laws are stupid and unfair in the first place, stop destroying our industry and ****ing our economy.

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"

Reply 27

Bromers

Original post by Mishmashmoo

This is very true. It's annoying that people are blaming the current government for the double dip recession when we have no idea what would have happened with Labour in power. In my opinion the current government has made some very smart moves so I'd be very interested to see how the next few years go. With the current attitude in England everyone will just vote Labour back in because all our problems were not solved in one term and then our economy will be even more screwed.

Sorry accidentally negged you

Reply 28

internetguru

Original post by Mishmashmoo

If the people don't like the tax rates then they shouldn't vote for a party that advocates high taxes. If someone tax dodges they are a traitor and traitors deserve the ultimate punishment.

Reply 29

internetguru

Original post by The Patriot

Those countries all have a horrible average wage.

Reply 30

Craig_D

Original post by mimx

Why would we want to compare them? We already know spending can aid growth, at least in the short term.

Our austerity isn't about getting out of recession. We may very well have been spending our way out of it if we weren't so worried about the debt we've already got.

It's an entirely useful comparison. Osborne has taken the view that too much money in the hands of the government takes it away from the markets, and therefore stifles business and growth. Furthermore, high debt means high interest repayments, which could detract government spending away from the public; losing the AAA rating could also create a decline in investment. The opposing view to that is obviously that high spending would mean kick-starting the economy, but there's no proof as yet that this would definitely work in this case. As far as I know the coalition have always taken the view that public spending does not necessarily aid growth (certainly long term) which is how they've justified their actions; this will put all of that to the test.

Cameron's words recently were:

I know it’s difficult, but when you’ve got a debt problem the one thing you mustn’t do is keep adding endlessly to that debt.

France will demonstrate if a country in debt can safely spend its way back to growth; if so, there will be serious calls to do the same in the UK, and it will sound the death knell for the coalition and Cameron. If France collapses under the weight of its own debt in a few months then Osborne and Cameron will be proved right, it could even mean them winning the next election.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 31

FDR

Original post by Mishmashmoo

You, sir, are a prime example of someone who wants to sound like they know what is going on, but don't actually have a clue.

Our government must take some responsibility for our economic situation, although some of the blame should also be taken by Merkel.

Regarding the UK, we don't need to cut as fast as we are constantly being told by the Government. If we were in any sort of debt crises, then our gilt yields would be through the roof, ala Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Italy. However, 10 Year gilts currently stand at around 2%, meaning that, in essence, the UK can borrow money for free. When the economy is severely depressed, and there is a lack of private demand, the government needs to make up for this lack of demand by spending. However what our current government is doing, which you deem to have been a 'very smart move' is to cut. Consequently, unemployment has worsened under the Coalition, and the growth that they predicted based on confidence magicking it's way into the economy didn't happen.

Thanks to the BoE's brave policies, (and the fact that the fiscal multiplier within the UK economy is nowhere near as large as within the eurozone), the UK economy hasn't performed as badly as it could have. However, the government need to recognise that with unemployment insanely high, and the economy depressed, and with 10 year bond rates at around 2%, this is a prime opportunity to undertake expenditure on things like infrastructure, and create jobs, and get the economy moving.

Reply 32

FDR

Original post by Craig_D

The opposing view to that is obviously that high spending would mean kick-starting the economy, but there's no proof as yet that this would definitely work in this case.

...

don't care :/

Original post by Mishmashmoo

What do you think of the recent election results? Do you think it will help the country or do you think it will hurt the economy. I'm interested to see what other students think about this.

Personally I think taxing the rich into oblivion will destroy their remaining economy by forcing all the rich corporations to migrate. What kind of millionaire will continue to contribute to an economy that takes 75% of earnings over 1million euro.

one who uses offshore banking? e-preneurs?

Reply 35

cl_steele

i bet by bottom dollar he'll be little different than sarkozy and will bow to the will of Merkel ... what politicion has ever kept their promises? :rolleyes:

Reply 36

Iron Lady

Original post by calender1994

don't care :/

Wow. o.O

Reply 37

Craig_D

Original post by FDR

...

That's why I said in this case, meaning the specific example of the UK at this moment in time. I realise that there is a precedent, but the graph is not a perfect correlation (and I don't know the motive of its compiler; were certain countries not included because they spoiled the results?), so it's not a guarantee that it would work for the UK. Nonetheless I think France is the best acid test to see what would happen.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 38

justmyopinions

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/feb2012/roma-f24.shtml

Reply 39

Aramiss18

Original post by Mishmashmoo

I believe one of the reasons we have such obscene social and financial problems is because the idea of what is a good salary has gone completely out of the window. If people earning over 1 million euros are too bothered with what they are paying in tax to appreciate how fantastic their salary is then I have no hope for humanity.

It's time to recalibrate perceptions of wealth in the West. It's bonkers. You don't need a 7 figure+ salary to be happy and unless your doing something pretty sodding fantastic you don't deserve one. The world is obsessed with money and in the drive to accumulate it have lost all sense.