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Original post by Craghyrax
Really? I did Chemistry, Biology and English Literature at A level, so everything in SPS was 100% new for me!
Having said that, I'd done History and Economics to HIGCSE level in South Africa and that does pretty much teach you that free trade is wonderful. I've got a copy of Niall Ferguson's Empire on my shelf too :rolleyes: I'm still embarrassed that the interview that got me into Cambridge was with a very neoliberal historian with an expertise in humanitarian intervention. At that stage I was like 'oh yes, humanitarian intervention is definitely the right thing' :facepalm: Completely the right answer for Peterhouse though :lol:


Well I did economics at A level (basically just says Free Market is the winner in life), and history GCSE part of it was saying how awful collectivisation was and that the countries which were exposed to Western free markets did much better....


Original post by Zoedotdot
One of the first things I learnt at Cambridge was that everything I learnt at sixth form was wrong. Including all the Spanish grammar I did. Proceeding from the point of assuming all prior knowledge to be incorrect was much simpler :p:


Haha yeah, totally sympathise with that. Was glad at least to get away from all the hoop jumping with A levels though...(having said that, the hoops are just much larger at Cambridge than in 6th form....)
Reply 7841
Original post by Crazy_emz
And then when you go on your year abroad and talk to actual native speakers in a non-educational context, you realise that lots of the grammar rules they taught you in Cambridge just aren't followed as strictly (if at all) in "real life" :s-smilie: Everyone thought it was really funny that I used the 'vosotros' form because in Latin America they use 'ustedes' for plural 'you'...suits me, it's so much easier to conjugate :tongue:


Yeah, I find that really really confusing. In Russian there are all sorts of rules that nobody uses in actual spoken language because they're just too complicated - mostly to do with when to use which case. Particularly with numbers - you're meant to always decline every single number spoken appropriately (so if you had 1254 and needed to decline it you would have to add an ending to the one thousand and the two and the hundred and the five and the ten and the four if you were doing it properly) but then you end up with long strings of syllables that don't really add anything to the meaning of the sentence. So most people will only decline the last number. But then you get back here and have to learn how to do it properly for the exams. It drives me nuts!
Original post by Zoedotdot
Yeah, I find that really really confusing. In Russian there are all sorts of rules that nobody uses in actual spoken language because they're just too complicated - mostly to do with when to use which case. Particularly with numbers - you're meant to always decline every single number spoken appropriately (so if you had 1254 and needed to decline it you would have to add an ending to the one thousand and the two and the hundred and the five and the ten and the four if you were doing it properly) but then you end up with long strings of syllables that don't really add anything to the meaning of the sentence. So most people will only decline the last number. But then you get back here and have to learn how to do it properly for the exams. It drives me nuts!


Oh my :eek: That's so complicated! So glad that Spanish doesn't have that! Now I'm back here, I have to remember that a lot of the Chileanisms/slang/swear words I learned on my year abroad (and I learned LOTS, living with native speakers is great for that kind of thing...) aren't really appropriate "classroom Spanish". Essentially, I speak Spanish...but I also speak "Chilean" with my closest friends from Chile :tongue:
Original post by Craghyrax
Really? I did Chemistry, Biology and English Literature at A level, so everything in SPS was 100% new for me!
Having said that, I'd done History and Economics to HIGCSE level in South Africa and that does pretty much teach you that free trade is wonderful. I've got a copy of Niall Ferguson's Empire on my shelf too :rolleyes: I'm still embarrassed that the interview that got me into Cambridge was with a very neoliberal historian with an expertise in humanitarian intervention. At that stage I was like 'oh yes, humanitarian intervention is definitely the right thing' :facepalm: Completely the right answer for Peterhouse though :lol:


Oooh, I think that might have been my DoS-from-first-year's husband :eek: My Dad read one of his books and thought it was really good, despite my dad probably being more lefty than me (that is to say, VERY left-wing).
Reply 7844
Original post by Crazy_emz
Oh my :eek: That's so complicated! So glad that Spanish doesn't have that! Now I'm back here, I have to remember that a lot of the Chileanisms/slang/swear words I learned on my year abroad (and I learned LOTS, living with native speakers is great for that kind of thing...) aren't really appropriate "classroom Spanish". Essentially, I speak Spanish...but I also speak "Chilean" with my closest friends from Chile :tongue:


The subjunctive in Russian is MUCH easier though. Although I'm not sure it compensates for all the cases, or the fact that you have to learn two verbs for each action. I'm feeling a little bitter about grammar today :p:

I still really want to go to Chile. One day... It's on my bucket list, which currently consists only of countries that I want to go to rather than things that I want to do. I have itchy feet!
Original post by Crazy_emz
Oooh, I think that might have been my DoS-from-first-year's husband :eek: My Dad read one of his books and thought it was really good, despite my dad probably being more lefty than me (that is to say, VERY left-wing).

It was :yep: I've babysat for them, and the wife is definitely an MML Fellow at Cauis.

Anyway, he's a really nice person. But he's also one of the founders of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Jackson_Society (read the statement of principles).
I never tried to imply that neoliberals or conservatives weren't academically sound and skilled. I just strongly disagree with the their conclusions and the policies they advocate that's all.
Before I did my degree I'd have looked at that link and nodded along happily thinking it sounded wonderful. Now I'm very sceptical of any military act by the US and others under the name of humanitarian goals.
Original post by Zoedotdot
The subjunctive in Russian is MUCH easier though. Although I'm not sure it compensates for all the cases, or the fact that you have to learn two verbs for each action. I'm feeling a little bitter about grammar today :p:

I still really want to go to Chile. One day... It's on my bucket list, which currently consists only of countries that I want to go to rather than things that I want to do. I have itchy feet!


You should definitely go! You'll love it! (I think the Chilean government should pay me for all the advertising I do for their country...:tongue:)

It was :yep: I've babysat for them, and the wife is definitely an MML Fellow at Cauis.

Anyway, he's a really nice person. But he's also one of the founders of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Jackson_Society (read the statement of principles).
I never tried to imply that neoliberals or conservatives weren't academically sound and skilled. I just strongly disagree with the their conclusions and the policies they advocate that's all.
Before I did my degree I'd have looked at that link and nodded along happily thinking it sounded wonderful. Now I'm very sceptical of any military act by the US and others under the name of humanitarian goals.


No, my surprise was more at my (very left-wing) father approving of a book written by a neo-conservative :wink:

I've just read their statement of principles (which apparently Dave Willetts has signed...) and I really don't know what to think. I mean, in the context of the break-up of Yugoslavia (with all the atrocities in Bosnia) military intervention was probably justified, but then I wouldn't say that intervention is always (or even frequently) justifiable, and I was very against the Iraq War. *confused*
Reply 7847
Original post by Craghyrax
It was :yep: I've babysat for them, and the wife is definitely an MML Fellow at Cauis.

Anyway, he's a really nice person. But he's also one of the founders of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Jackson_Society (read the statement of principles).
I never tried to imply that neoliberals or conservatives weren't academically sound and skilled. I just strongly disagree with the their conclusions and the policies they advocate that's all.
Before I did my degree I'd have looked at that link and nodded along happily thinking it sounded wonderful. Now I'm very sceptical of any military act by the US and others under the name of humanitarian goals.


Studying and reading about American history is very revealing. I am also incredibly sceptical of their 'humanitarian interventions', because they always have something to gain from it and tend to blow countries to hell in the name of getting rid of people they don't like who are painted as 'oppressors'. This is only a very general view, but they are SO sneaky. At least when the British Empire was conquering the world they were honest about their horrid expansionism and desire to exploit the resources and manpower of other countries for their own gain. Somehow the dishonesty of the US makes it seem that bit worse, although in reality I suppose it isn't. At this point their saviour attitudes seem so ingrained that they can actually kid themselves that these missions are humanitarian. It's a fascinating country and mindset. If I can get enough money together I want to do an OU degree that's entirely open and I will definitely cram some American Studies in there, along with some planetary science and history of art.

One of my favourite things about my Russian degree has been the breaking down of Cold War attitudes that I didn't even know I had. Even as late as second year I had this idea that the Russians were oppressed under Soviet rule and that everyone was miserable and poor and hungry and wanted to leave. It was really difficult to accept that this was largely an idea propagated by the US and the West in general and that while conditions weren't always ideal, they were nowhere near as bad as portrayed by the capitalist world. It's funny how much the US can kidnap your subconscious.
Original post by Crazy_emz

No, my surprise was more at my (very left-wing) father approving of a book written by a neo-conservative :wink:
Heheh, well hopefully we're not so closed minded as to disagree with anything a Tory says on principle :p:

I've just read their statement of principles (which apparently Dave Willetts has signed...) and I really don't know what to think. I mean, in the context of the break-up of Yugoslavia (with all the atrocities in Bosnia) military intervention was probably justified, but then I wouldn't say that intervention is always (or even frequently) justifiable, and I was very against the Iraq War. *confused*

I think it comes down to optimism and pessimism. I would be totally behind 'humanitarian' intervention, if the perpetrators genuinely were motivated by altruism. But now I'm extremely pessimistic and assume that they're always doing it for their own opaque interests.
Also while occasionally its successful, most countries that are 'rescued' in this way end up in absolute shambles afterwards.
Original post by Zoedotdot


One of my favourite things about my Russian degree has been the breaking down of Cold War attitudes that I didn't even know I had. Even as late as second year I had this idea that the Russians were oppressed under Soviet rule and that everyone was miserable and poor and hungry and wanted to leave. It was really difficult to accept that this was largely an idea propagated by the US and the West in general and that while conditions weren't always ideal, they were nowhere near as bad as portrayed by the capitalist world. It's funny how much the US can kidnap your subconscious.


I had a similar "revelation" with respect to Cuba on my year abroad...I'd always more or less believed the US line on Cuba, but talking to some of my Latin American friends, I realised that it really is much more complicated than it seems. Obviously, there are serious human rights issues (but probably no more so than in other regimes which the US and Western democracies support), but Cuba has, I think, the highest Human Development Index score for all of Latin America, free healthcare and little poverty. And apparently their medical schools are very good. Cuba wouldn't be so vilified by the Western world if it wasn't Communist.
Original post by Zoedotdot
Studying and reading about American history is very revealing. I am also incredibly sceptical of their 'humanitarian interventions', because they always have something to gain from it and tend to blow countries to hell in the name of getting rid of people they don't like who are painted as 'oppressors'. This is only a very general view, but they are SO sneaky. At least when the British Empire was conquering the world they were honest about their horrid expansionism and desire to exploit the resources and manpower of other countries for their own gain. Somehow the dishonesty of the US makes it seem that bit worse, although in reality I suppose it isn't. At this point their saviour attitudes seem so ingrained that they can actually kid themselves that these missions are humanitarian. It's a fascinating country and mindset. If I can get enough money together I want to do an OU degree that's entirely open and I will definitely cram some American Studies in there, along with some planetary science and history of art.

Well democracy is part of it, isn't it? The US has to come up with grand noble reasons for its military activities in order to win over the voting populace. For a lot of its history, the British Empire didn't have to give a rat's arse what the populace thought of its conquests.
But yeh, this is why my heartbeat speeds up when I see 'Help for Heroes' advertisement and other military related campaigns/publicity. I essentially feel that the State does a very good job of hoodwinking a huge amount of people with respect to the realities of war, and their motivations behind it. And it angers me that people swallow it, hook line and sinker. And also get fooled into signing up and throwing away their lives for really awful reasons.


One of my favourite things about my Russian degree has been the breaking down of Cold War attitudes that I didn't even know I had. Even as late as second year I had this idea that the Russians were oppressed under Soviet rule and that everyone was miserable and poor and hungry and wanted to leave. It was really difficult to accept that this was largely an idea propagated by the US and the West in general and that while conditions weren't always ideal, they were nowhere near as bad as portrayed by the capitalist world. It's funny how much the US can kidnap your subconscious.

Interesting, thanks.
Original post by Crazy_emz
I had a similar "revelation" with respect to Cuba on my year abroad...I'd always more or less believed the US line on Cuba, but talking to some of my Latin American friends, I realised that it really is much more complicated than it seems. Obviously, there are serious human rights issues (but probably no more so than in other regimes which the US and Western democracies support), but Cuba has, I think, the highest Human Development Index score for all of Latin America, free healthcare and little poverty. And apparently their medical schools are very good. Cuba wouldn't be so vilified by the Western world if it wasn't Communist.

Well the US and the UK aren't exactly a port and cheese party with respects to human rights. Just take a casual glance at detainment and security practices and how illegal immigrants are treated. Its really horrific.
Original post by Craghyrax
Heheh, well hopefully we're not so closed minded as to disagree with anything a Tory says on principle :p:

I think it comes down to optimism and pessimism. I would be totally behind 'humanitarian' intervention, if the perpetrators genuinely were motivated by altruism. But now I'm extremely pessimistic and assume that they're always doing it for their own opaque interests.
Also while occasionally its successful, most countries that are 'rescued' in this way end up in absolute shambles afterwards.

Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head there...PRSOM
Oh and also the US's special relationship with Israel, which wouldn't recognise a human right if it tripped over one :facepalm:
Original post by Craghyrax
Well the US and the UK aren't exactly a port and cheese party with respects to human rights. Just take a casual glance at detainment and security practices and how illegal immigrants are treated. Its really horrific.


Quite...I mean, we've avoided certain of the excesses of the Cuban state (political prisoners) but the UK and the US are far from being able to claim the moral high ground.
Here's one that surprised me yesterday: https://secure.avaaz.org/en/uzbekistan_sterilisation_meme/?cl=1746707663&v=13784 Apparently the Uzbekistani government is having loads of women forcibly sterilised :confused: First I've heard of it, so I have no idea why...
Reply 7856
Original post by Crazy_emz
I had a similar "revelation" with respect to Cuba on my year abroad...I'd always more or less believed the US line on Cuba, but talking to some of my Latin American friends, I realised that it really is much more complicated than it seems. Obviously, there are serious human rights issues (but probably no more so than in other regimes which the US and Western democracies support), but Cuba has, I think, the highest Human Development Index score for all of Latin America, free healthcare and little poverty. And apparently their medical schools are very good. Cuba wouldn't be so vilified by the Western world if it wasn't Communist.


The whole US relationship with Cuba was one of the things I was thinking about specifically actually. I studied it at A level (so it's probably wrong, a la my assertion above), but I remember being really struck by their initial relationship. As part of the peace treaty following the Spanish-American war in 1898 Spain essentially sold their colonies to America - I think it was Puerto Rico and the Philippines and possibly one other. And then there was some faff with Cuba - can't remember exactly what, but I think they'd been fighting Spain for their independence and the Americans gave it to them on the condition that they could continue to intervene in their foreign and financial affairs and that they could retain Guantanamo Bay as a military base. So it was essentially a false independence, because the Americans had military stationed there and had reserved the right to intervene in country shaping policies. The worst thing was that they said that this was because the Cubans needed help, whereas the real reason probably had more to do with wanting it to be a puppet country. Or maybe I'm a cynic. But yes, their relationship has deteriorated to the extent that we aren't allowed to like Cuba anymore.

Original post by Craghyrax
Well democracy is part of it, isn't it? The US has to come up with grand noble reasons for its military activities in order to win over the voting populace. For a lot of its history, the British Empire didn't have to give a rat's arse what the populace thought of its conquests.
But yeh, this is why my heartbeat speeds up when I see 'Help for Heroes' advertisement and other military related campaigns/publicity. I essentially feel that the State does a very good job of hoodwinking a huge amount of people with respect to the realities of war, and their motivations behind it. And it angers me that people swallow it, hook line and sinker. And also get fooled into signing up and throwing away their lives for really awful reasons.


Yes, it probably does come down to democracy. But I think it also comes down to the fundamentals of American culture (which I am gleaning from the huge amounts of their media output that I encounter). There is such a strong emphasis on them being not only a 'free' country, but also a country that can promote freedom. You only have to look at their inflated Independence Day ideals to see that. They see themselves as the pioneers of democracy and the only people who can bring freedom and justice to the world. I think this mindset (which was created in the early 20th century when they decided to go expansionist after decades of isolationism) contributes to their policies of interventionism, but is also exploited by the people in power to justify war and invasion and dress it up as something else. It's so self-perpetuating that the leaders themselves end up believing it. Ideologies of this kind are dangerous, because a belief this strong becomes unquestionable - much like what happened in Soviet Russia!

Anyway, horrid generalisations there, and I'm sure there are thousands of Americans that don't believe these things. But I can only assume that either a significant proportion of the population do believe them, or that the TV networks, newspapers and Hollywood studios want them to believe these things because the whole 'God Bless America' mentality is widespread throughout all of them.
Original post by Craghyrax
Oh and also the US's special relationship with Israel, which wouldn't recognise a human right if it tripped over one :facepalm:


PRSOM. :eek: We actually agree on something!
Original post by alex_hk90
PRSOM. :eek: We actually agree on something!
:rofl:
Original post by Zoedotdot

Yes, it probably does come down to democracy. But I think it also comes down to the fundamentals of American culture (which I am gleaning from the huge amounts of their media output that I encounter). There is such a strong emphasis on them being not only a 'free' country, but also a country that can promote freedom. You only have to look at their inflated Independence Day ideals to see that. They see themselves as the pioneers of democracy and the only people who can bring freedom and justice to the world. I think this mindset (which was created in the early 20th century when they decided to go expansionist after decades of isolationism) contributes to their policies of interventionism, but is also exploited by the people in power to justify war and invasion and dress it up as something else. It's so self-perpetuating that the leaders themselves end up believing it. Ideologies of this kind are dangerous, because a belief this strong becomes unquestionable - much like what happened in Soviet Russia!

Anyway, horrid generalisations there, and I'm sure there are thousands of Americans that don't believe these things.

No I completely agree. I just sort of assumed all of that went without saying :o: I think that all of those particular cultural sentiments and features of American identity are specific and unique to them and their history, but at the same time they are also constantly drummed up, encouraged and repeated by the country's media and government precisely so that it can use these sentiments to manipulate voters. I should have actually articulated this though.

And my US buddies on the Sociology MPhil last year agreed, so I don't think its an unfair generalisation.
Reply 7859
Original post by Craghyrax
:rofl:

No I completely agree. I just sort of assumed all of that went without saying :o: I think that all of those particular cultural sentiments and features of American identity are specific and unique to them and their history, but at the same time they are also constantly drummed up, encouraged and repeated by the country's media and government precisely so that it can use these sentiments to manipulate voters. I should have actually articulated this though.

And my US buddies on the Sociology MPhil last year agreed, so I don't think its an unfair generalisation.


It probably does all go without saying! But I think that a lot of my degree also goes without saying so I have a tendency to articulate these things :p: I just find the US really fascinating. I don't think I could ever be a successful academic because I want to absorb so much information about lots of different things and can't see myself ever really specialising. I wish being a polymath was an actual job :p:

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