Guardian is anti-Semitic?

I hate how we're not allowed to say we disagree with Israel without being accused of being anti-Semitic!

And I hate how people always say that they cannot criticise Israel without being accused of being antisemitic! This pitiful claim by the Israel bashers is almost as absurd as the repeated suggestion that Zionists are constantly preventing debate and discussion on the topic of Israel and Palestine.

The reality is that plenty of criticism happens against Israel all the time, both from inside Israel and outside and the vast majority of it is not condemned as being antisemitic by any except nutters (and if you focus on them as being representative then you've only yourself to blame for your warped perceptions). However, it is absolutely undeniable that there is quite a lot of overlap between anti-Israel condemnation and antisemitism. Very often (far too often) old antisemitic themes appear almost unchanged in anti-Zionist literature and arguments. Prime among these is the concept of Jewish control (now Zionist control) of the banks, media and governments etc.

And, if it happens that a group of people who have been widely persecuted for 2,000 odd years, were almost systematically wiped out and now, finally, have some strip of land which they can call home where, in theory, they can be safe and sovereign yet still face unceasing opposition and a much larger group of people who would happily return them to their wanderings (or worse) - if such a group are overly touchy about being criticised for taking steps they believe are needed to keep themselves safe and secure, maybe, just maybe, they should be cut a little slack rather than twisting their sensitivity itself into a stick to beat them with.

But then no. Israel is incredibly strong now and Jews aren't in any real danger any more so they should forget their long history and stop being so bloody sensitive about things. After all, even if Israel is wiped out by the Arabs and its citizens are murdered or forced to live under someone else's rule again - who really cares. If they want the world to pity them they can jolly well go back to being powerless victims. The world certainly won't have any pity or sensitivity to a group so scarred by persecution that they put their collective survival above virtually everything else. That's crazy talk - and its racist!

I completely get that Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years but they aren't any more, and the world should try to move away from using religion to define groups of people. The Israel/Palestine conflict should be about Israel and Palestine, not Jews and Muslims.

It's not anti-Semitic to be anti-Zionist. That's like those people who say that it's racist to be islamophobic.

(regardless, as an israeli I do find a lot of racism present in people who mix the two, I suppose that's what muslims experience as well but that's no reason to confuse the two terms)

I do agree that the media has quite a bit of a bias in the israeli palestinian conflict. I think it has something to do with fear of "insulting" the extremist muslims who no doubt exist in England.

..Or maybe a lot of the media is simply appalled at the way the Israeli government and army oppresses and terrorizes the Palestinian people in their own homeland? Just a thought!

I know this is going to be hard for people to understand but it needs saying in any case.

Jewish history is very long and our collective memory is very long as well. Its been less than 70 years since the Holocaust which, compared to our history, is a tiny blip. And even since then Jews have not been safe. Jews right across the world have been killed because they are Jews. So to suggest that Jews should just forget their past and "move on" is really rather naive and, to some extent, insensitive. Its kind of like suggesting that an abused child should "move on" and forget their abuse just a few years after leaving their abusive parents. The trauma remains for a long, long time.

So, even if critics of Israel are absolutely right that they are not antisemitic and are not using antisemitic imagery or themes and have said and done nothing that a reasonable person would consider to be antisemitic - is it too much for them to be a little sensitive to the trauma of Jews? I really don't think it's good enough to say "the Jews aren't persecuted any more - get over it already". And it certainly isn't good enough when antisemitism still very much exists among the populace and among many governments.

I almost completely disagree with what you said there. The reason I think Jews SHOULD have their own homeland is because there is STILL a huge amount of anti antisemitism around and I, even as a completely atheist Jew, still feel unsafe at times simply because of my heritage.

But it's unwise and even slightly racist to mention the holocaust as a "trauma" to the Jews and suggest that they should get sympathy because it happened. Most of the people who were in the holocaust are now either dead or 1000 years old.

That's the thing about racism - people assume that children are exactly the same as their parents simply because of their race. Jewish children can and do grow and assimilate in new countries and live different lives without having any direct "trauma" from the holocaust. They haven't been there. They haven't experienced it. They don't give a ****. They're separate entities.

That being said, I do think much of what's happening to the Arabs in the occupied territories is, although not always justified, their own fault and I can have a separate discussion about that with anyone who may disagree with me (don't want to make this post too long).

I almost completely disagree with what you said there. The reason I think Jews SHOULD have their own homeland is because there is STILL a huge amount of anti antisemitism around and I, even as a completely atheist Jew, still feel unsafe at times simply because of my heritage.

But it's unwise and even slightly racist to mention the holocaust as a "trauma" to the Jews and suggest that they should get sympathy because it happened. Most of the people who were in the holocaust are now either dead or 1000 years old.

That's the thing about racism - people assume that children are exactly the same as their parents simply because of their race. Jewish children can and do grow and assimilate in new countries and live different lives without having any direct "trauma" from the holocaust. They haven't been there. They haven't experienced it. They don't give a ****. They're separate entities.

That being said, I do think much of what's happening to the Arabs in the occupied territories is, although not always justified, their own fault and I can have a separate discussion about that with anyone who may disagree with me (don't want to make this post too long).