The Pupillage Interview/Acceptance/Rejection Thread 2012

The great thing about applying for pupillage at the independent Bar is that you avoid all the box-ticking HR feckery that you get in most other industries.

Looks like extreme HR gymnastics need to be performed to obtain pupillage at the CPS. Easy if you know which boxes to tick, not so easy if you don't.

Personally, I feel that undertaking a pupillage in the CPS is a dangerous move for a wannabe future practitioner. There's a real chance that you could lose your perspective, which is one of the elements that make the Bar so strong. To be able to prosecute successfully, objectively and efficiently surely one needs to have a deep understanding of how the defence operates? Vice versa, if you have a pure defence practice, it's entirely possible that you could lose objectivity and foresight in the long run. FWIW, I wish that criminal practitioners were required to prosecute and defend as much as possible!

hi there, has anyone heard back from any criminal sets of chambers? charter chambers, pump court chambers, 23 essex st, 7 bedford row?.. or does anyone know when we might be hearing from them? I'm guessing that the lack of contact isn't a good sign!

I think I would disagree with you there, and it is also something very easy to say after securing pupillage. (Which by the way is an incredible achievement).

6 years ago when I started my Law degree all I wanted was to prosecute, and be an advocate and the CPS was the perfect place to do this. When they froze recruitment, I was extremely disappointed. During the BVC this changed slightly, and I realise I had a keen interest in defence work as well, and family law.

However, my main goal is to be an advocate, whether that be at the employed or self employed bar. Unfortunately there isn’t the luxury of choice anymore, and if an organisation is offering potentially 15 pupillages, and you were interested in crime, you'd be a fool not to apply.

That's what they said to me 2.5 weeks ago, almost exactly. The Clerk sounded quite apologetic when I asked. It makes me wonder if they are reconsidering whether they have enough funds for a pupil? I note that one of the two pupillages was meant to have started in April, so either that has been chopped or shunted to a later date.

I understand what you are saying, and I agree that it really is a case of getting your foot through the door. Nevertheless, I would hope that - after completing the pupillage period - CPS advocates were encouraged to spend some time in the independent Bar. Maybe as a third six or (probably more sensible) with a couple of years under their belt. Speaking from personal experience, the job which I currently do means that I see a lot of cases where the CPS lawyers (and advocates) are very short-sighted and narrow in their view of, as one example, their CPIA duties. That could be helped hugely by understanding the mindset and process of a defence through personal, hands-on, experience.

Something to consider anyway, and perhaps a subject for a separate thread

Hi, I'm new on here and have found all of your comments interesting. I have applied to sets doing crime, professional regulation and some family work. At the risk of sounding confident in getting an interview, I have been preparing for that event. I am wondering what sort of prep other people are doing??

Especially a criminal barrister. It will be my JOB not to care about the feelings of the defendant's family, etc, and to see that justice is done.

I instinctively disagree with this. I would care what the defendant's family feels - no matter whether I was prosecuting or defending. However, I would not allow this understanding of their feelings get in the way of making sure justice (or some form of justice) is done.

I was talking about this sort of subject to a barrister just last Wednesday. We were moaning about two judges on the South eastern circuit who shall remain nameless. One is very compassionate, the other is a hard b*stard. The compassionate one is the better judge and was the better barrister.

On a residential weekend my fellow wannabe barristers and I received an ear bashing from the Chairman of the National Victims’ Association and a nice lady he brought along who was fresh out of seeing the man who 'killed' her husband convicted of death by dangerous. The long and the short - there is nothing wrong with caring about people's feelings. I would certainly not say that it is your job not to care.

Aside from that - I agree: the CPS questions are a real pain in the proverbial.

Inner, I was on the same weekend as you by the sound of things.

..x..

Sounds like it. The NVA talk was terrible. On the Friday, I happened to have dinner with a judge who sat on one of the earlier hearings concerning the woman's case. Chatham house rules etc - needless to say, the chat we had confirmed my suspicions.

Without going into depth - although you quite rightly say that this was a case which could have been clouded by emotion, it was one where better communication and an understanding of her (the woman's) feelings may have taken the edge of, what I am sure, was a very surprising series of decisions by the Crown.



I was not just saying that one should care about the feelings of families. The same applies, I would suggest, to the alleged victims one may come across.

On reflection - perhaps I was wrong to pick Mini up on the point he/she(?) made. I believe that as a barrister, one should be aware of other people's feelings. Is this the same as caring? Maybe not - and in that respect I am wrong. My apologies to Mini.

As for how we assessed the judges - no science involved, just personal opinion. I have marshalled both, he [the barrister] appears in front of both regularly. They are both fairly well known. One was a member of his [the barrister] chambers.

I would say that it is absolutely essentially to empathise with the victims, to have a comprehension of the grief they are experiencing in such a case, even if defending.

Remember you are presenting a case to a jury. Part of that is getting the law spot on, and testing the evidence in that respect. The other part is understanding what the jurors' personal feelings will be, and tailoring your approach.

If you go in like a robot then the jury may think you are a bad whopper.

Anyone had communication with either 4 KBW (Mr Power) (decision was to be made by 11th May - I have heard zip) or Warwick House?

Also, we're recruiting editors for The Pupillage Pages at the moment (Civil, Family, Human Rights and Commercial). Applications welcome - check TPP home page for details.

Edit: 4KBW are still going through applications.

Morning all. Has anyone else had a request for references from 7KBW? Just wondering if they ask every applicant or whether I should take that as a good sign!? Cheers!