£13trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

I don't think recognising your own ignorance is the slightest bit pretentious. Quite the opposite. I'm making no pretences to knowledge or understanding; you are.

Which are all part of the tax system as a whole.



No, I'm saying they didn't work hard enough to make something of themselves. They could have worked very hard in their lives, in factories, supermarkets, cleaning streets etc. But they obviously started working hard too late. How many of the people living in poverty have degrees? Good qualifications? I can't imagine it is too many compared to the people who dropped out of school and don't have any qualifications to their name.



Again you're misunderstanding what I said. I said we should adopt some of their attitudes towards life and work, not look at them as a model society.

Also your claims are just ridiculous. The US has a much higher quality of life as measured by the Quality-of-life index. (US is ranked 13th and the UK 29th)



I don't use the student loan system, I am self financed and fortunate enough to not have to worry about money at university. I know many people who do though.



Removing an adult's opportunities because of their parents background is wrong. So why is it ok to remove them from those from a well off background? It isn't just rich students we are talking about. Parents earning over 42k may also be unable to support their children. Yet they will get no grant and will most likely have to get a job to support themselves. If they can do it, why can't poor students? The end result is the same, neither the middle class nor the poor student are supported by their parents. Yet the poor one gets thousands of pounds of grants whilst the middle class student must work.



It is. If you are of sound mind and able bodied then there is no excuse for you to be poor. If you are, it is your own fault. You may not have wanted to be poor, but if that is how it ends up then 99 times out of 100 you have yourself to blame.

So yes, the poor students parents have chosen to not be able to support their children in the same way that the richer children's parents have chosen not to support their children. One group is given free handouts, the other is made to struggle their way through university.

But aren't the government developing railways, but using taxpayer funding?

So then. You are saying that my relative wealth should be taken off me.



I quite agree. However, firstly they're not amazingly wealthy, just comfortably middle-class. Also, they are so because of their own hard work, and their parents' hard work. They worked hard so that they could provide for their children - why should they not be able to have this incentive?

That is the case now because the government doesn't allow private entities to build any railways.

You can't expect the private sector to build it now could you if all rail track infrastructure has to be nationalised?

There is nothing wrong with PFIs, many countries has utilized it very well and it has brought plenty of savings to the taxpayer, these countries include Sweden and Finland both among the largest users of PFI schemes, same goes for Germany and Switzerland (by cantons)

The problem with UK and PFIs under that idiot Gordon Brown was more to do with implementation and like most government contracts the reason behind it wasn't so much the project itself, just look at the stupid farce of the building of UK's new aircraft carrier, much of the deal wasn't so much about the aircraft carrier but more to win votes of the numerous shipbuilders in Govan. The NHS usage of PFIs, these were done in such utter stupidity that you could only deduce the ******* signing the contract must have been either drunk or asleep or on drugs to think it was a good deal unless of course all along it was meant to be pork-barrel politics.

This could go on forever. Humans are selfish, it's in our nature.

for a year yes, since you clearly have no concept of the real world for the poor and just want to make it even harder on them.

did i say they shouldnt have that lifestyle? no so stop putting words in my mouth, however they SHOULD pay tax, to provide oppurtunities for those less fortunate than you to better themselves, rather than avoid taxes and selfishly hide money away when they already live well as it is.

why is it all the right wingers on this site are middle class kids with really selfish attitudes i wonder........

mememememememe (also known as right wing politics)

Just saw this on the BBC. Normally I mitigate my criticism to avoid a negative backlash from the more extreme libertarians, but in this case, sod it. That is an obscene criminality, and as far as I'm concerned people who can be demonstrated to be doing such things should receive more than a small beating during their god damn arrest.

There's earning your success, there's fighting for fairer tax laws, and then there's absurd greed and outright criminality, and for criminals, the best they can hope for is to leave their cells with their body intact, and whether that is the outcome we should hope for I leave to your judgement.

I don't know what else to say really, only that limiting my anger to a desire to have them beaten up is a demonstration of extreme self control.

A synonym of pretentious is literal, sunshine.

Why not do it now then? Surely you'd notice the benefits of not paying tax now more than you would if you were a millionaire.

I disagree with the whole they chose a type of job thats hard work and little pay. That doesnt make them lazy like you assumed earlier and sometimes they have that job because they have no choice. Like i said its not that simple.

So as a PERCENTAGE those on lower incomes should pay MORE in tax? How is that fair.

Everybody has a choice. And I never said they were lazy in their work - I said they were lazy in their general ability to plan and organise their lives to suit what they want to achieve.

It doesn't get you anywhere and it certainly doesn't earn you my empathy. Only my pity.

Why should the rich pay for everything? If they didn't tax the rich like there's no tomorrow, they wouldn't hide anything. Those rich elite play a huge part in the economy, they own big companies and businesses, if they don't have enough money there would be none of those things and therefore the economy would collapse.

Some people's choices are limited though - that could be because the opportunities aren't there for them, there is little external support, or they weren't raised in an environment to become as productive a member of society as they could be. None of these factors would fall on the individuals themselves.

Quite interesting you should bring that up. Studies have actually suggested that wealthier people are generally worse at empathising than poorer people for a variety of reasons.

No one is suggesting that the rich pay for everything, and no one is suggesting that business owners should be stripped down to their bare skin for the economy. But there is an issue with hiding an exorbitant amount of money. And they could do more for the economy - paying their taxes and not attempting to exploit loopholes could help.

It doesn't. There is a huge amount of inefficiency and we actually have an extremely complicated tax system. A flat tax rate would make the whole process so much easier.



So everyone should live an amazing life? Regardless of how much work they have done, what their job is etc? They get paid a pittance because that is what their skill set is worth. People with a more valuable skill set get paid more. If you dick around in school, don't go to university and end up with a ****ty job you deserve to be scrimping every month. No one is entitled to a good life. You have such a ridiculous sense of entitlement, which is exactly what is wrong with this country. It stifles innovation.



Sorry what?

You said "the 50% rate doesnt exist anymore, shows how upto date you are."

Not even going to bother to say anything else about that.



So adults should be discriminated against because of their parents choices? The poor students have parents who chose to underachieve in life, not work as hard as they could, not make themselves as employable as possible. You have such double standards. One minute it is poor children shouldn't be disadvantaged by their parents choices, the next it is that rich children should be disadvantaged by their parents choices.

of course didnt work hard to make something of themselves, because there are no bad schools, no parents who force them to get jobs rather than go to college, no young carers who dont get to go to college or even school in some cases, yeah all poor people just didnt work hard.

american attitudes to life and work are disgusting it is a race to the top and stand on anyone who gets in your way. weve had that it was called the industrial revolution, and that was a total free market and look how workers suffered.

oh you are self funded? so your another rich kid pontificating from his computer who has never spent one day on the bottom of the pile, you are criticising things you know nothing about safely enclosed in mummy and daddys comfortable middle class home judging all those struggling to pay for food.

if a parent on 42k chooses not to support their child thye have made that choice,

a parent on 10k cannot support their child at all even if they want to, i agree it is neither of the students fault they cant get support and i think everyone should be given the same, but it should be todays maximum amount given how smaller loans dont even cover rent,

although i do think forcing middle class students to get jobs is good for them knocks them down a peg or two

Haha, I know I had another quote lined up just in case We are selfish exactly, which is why we need to get hold of this money that's been hidden! Humans are naturally territorial, so is it okay if we just decided to go to war with France for the sake of land? No. So why should it be acceptable to allow tax evasion? People say that they work hard for the money, fair enough. They ask 'why should we contribute more to society because we're rich?' Well, because society helped make them rich so it's right that they should pay money back into it and more money because they have more disposable income. It doesn't matter whether they get anything out of the services, but there is an obligation on them to pay more towards those services that are available for the less fortunate. An individual who's worked his way up from the bottom, shouldn't begrudge paying taxation to help those who are at the bottom.

Poor people don't choose to be poor you know!

What are trying to say to them? Most work hard but this is how the world works! Not everybody can be rich otherwise nothing would balance out stupid!

I don't think there are bad school. Just bad students. Yes under performing schools can make it slightly harder for a child to fulfil their potential, but it does not make it impossible. With all the resources out there today, there is no excuse. Parents forcing their children to get jobs is not that common. 82.3% of 16-18 year olds are in further education. Carers are an exception, I'll give you that. They have a harder life than most and I can understand how that would make it difficult to achieve.



The people who want to get to the top and better themselves can. Those who can't be bothered, don't have the aptitude or the right skill sets don't. The way it should be.



You say this, yet go on to judge how rich people spend their money, or question how a family earning 42k can't afford to support their child through university. You don't have to experience something to be able to comment on it.



It was an enforced choice. 42k in some parts of this country would have a family struggling to make ends meet. Hardly enough money for them to support a child through university. 42k is not some obscene amount of money. After food, petrol, mortgage costs and tax there is not that much left over. They would be part of the squeezed middle.