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Immigrants coming to the UK with no jobs?

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Reply 20
Ermm, you kind of have to come here first to find a job.


Also if we only let highly-skilled immigrants to come here, surely there would be too many high skilled people here, plus then people would complain about all of the high-skilled jobs being taken by immigrants and thus British citizens would have difficulties in finding those?


Another point would be that you do need those who are low-skilled, as there are many jobs that say English people wouldn't do, simply because probably they want to aspire a bit higher. I am not saying that no English people would take factory jobs etc, but it would be certainly harder to find them, as immigrants often will take those jobs.


Also, a lot of those immigrants have degrees from their country, which unfortunately are not acknowledged here most of the time, and therefore end up having a low or semi-skilled manual job. I don't think me or you would be happy doing that, knowing that we have degrees.

I am not defending immigrants, and of course there are some that just come and sponge off the state, which is a simply our of order, however I do believe that having them here does benefit the economy. The main reason for most immigrants come here for a job, not to get benefits.
Original post by Architecture-er
The issue isn't professional careers... It's with the basic jobs in supermarkets, garages, and the like.

Put bluntly, there's not enough jobs to go around everyone in England. There are people in England who'd gladly do jobs that immigrants do. We have a large immigrant force that comes here to work.

The "they're taking our jobs!" spiel used to be crap, until there was a shortage of jobs and you couldn't find something despite asking in every shop in your city.


"Used to be"? There have seemingly always been a million people out of work - why is it only suddenly now that there is a job shortage?

And no-one is "taking" anything. They are applying and out-competing Brits - which those same Brits are fully allowed to do in all the other EU countries but just choose not to - it's their own fault for being so lazy. I suppose using the same logic we should restrict unskilled workers from other counties moving across county borders unless they secure a job first? Or is it only when foreigners move that is the big issue? (And of course, we will order the tens of thousands of Brits who go and work on the continent to quit their jobs and return home).
Original post by Carecup
Kinda hard to get a job in a country you don't even live in.


Seems to work in Australia.
Reply 23
I confused why OP's flag is the EU flag, when he clearly does not support the EU and free immigration it brings.
What most people don't realise is that net EU immigration / emigration is actually negligible - although a lot of EU workers have come here (and let's not forget that they do pay tax here, and spend their money in our shops, thus supporting our economy), we have lost roughly the same number (~1m) of our own citizens who have emigrated to places like Spain!

And they really do take the jobs that a lot of British workers don't want . . . you try finding British people who want to care for incontinent dementia patients. I've seen the demographics of care workers, and a very high proportion of them are non-British. That's not because they are "taking our jobs", but because if they didn't do those jobs then they would be left unfilled, and the people they care for would be left to rot.
Original post by callum9999
"Used to be"? There have seemingly always been a million people out of work - why is it only suddenly now that there is a job shortage?

And no-one is "taking" anything. They are applying and out-competing Brits - which those same Brits are fully allowed to do in all the other EU countries but just choose not to - it's their own fault for being so lazy. I suppose using the same logic we should restrict unskilled workers from other counties moving across county borders unless they secure a job first? Or is it only when foreigners move that is the big issue? (And of course, we will order the tens of thousands of Brits who go and work on the continent to quit their jobs and return home).


Oh you idiot.

There's been a job shortage for around 6/7 years now because of the financial mess-up.. And if you think people are "out-competing" Brits for jobs then you're talking out of your arse. Take, for example, shelf-stacking. I could shelf-stack for summer work, but because there is simply more people applying for each job, the chances of me being employed decreases. Because such jobs don't have minimal requirements, so there's no way of vetting. Additionally, the people with the top grades or the highest intellects will actually be disadvantaged, because the employers know that the immigrants are more likely to stay working at their company because they have lower job prospects.

Sorry, but I don't know what on earth you're talking about at the end.. :confused:
Original post by Architecture-er
Oh you idiot.

There's been a job shortage for around 6/7 years now because of the financial mess-up.. And if you think people are "out-competing" Brits for jobs then you're talking out of your arse. Take, for example, shelf-stacking. I could shelf-stack for summer work, but because there is simply more people applying for each job, the chances of me being employed decreases. Because such jobs don't have minimal requirements, so there's no way of vetting. Additionally, the people with the top grades or the highest intellects will actually be disadvantaged, because the employers know that the immigrants are more likely to stay working at their company because they have lower job prospects.

Sorry, but I don't know what on earth you're talking about at the end.. :confused:


So an employer wanting an employee who will commit to the company for the long term is bad? He should prefer the 'top grade applicants' who want it for short term work?
Original post by marshymarsh
So an employer wanting an employee who will commit to the company for the long term is bad? He should prefer the 'top grade applicants' who want it for short term work?


That's irrelevant though isn't it... the point is that by allowing large numbers of immigrants into the country, they're creating this unnecessary demand for jobs that would be far less of an issue with a smaller population working in the bottom-salaried positions.

Whether it benefits the employer more doesn't have any bearing on that fact :wink:
Reply 28
Original post by .eXe
And why is this so upsetting to you?


Posted via TSR iPhone App


It's obvious surely?! Why wouldn't anyone find this upsetting? So when we are bankrupt and barely able to look after our own people properly we have to pay out to people who've never paid a penny into the system?

Or do you like people taking money off you with no obligation to contribute to anything? In that case please send me your account details as I'm a bit short at the moment?! What an infuriating question.

Are you someone who doesn't know the value of money? Perhaps you've had everything handed to you on a plate and after your left wing brainwashing programme (state education for the last couple of decades) you just think any objection to anything linked to people from abroad is racist and basically invalid? You probably think all immigration is poor persecuted people fleeing war zones. Most isn't asylum it's economic migration. Even of the asylum claims 75% are proven to be bogus and that's by our laspse and gullable borders agency!

In case you hadn't noticed our NHS is buckling under the pressure of the increased numbers of people here, housing is creaking under the demands of our new arrivals and we're betraying our elderly with substandard care. So we're letting down our own people who've paid in all their lives because some braindead left wing politician wanted to do the world a favour at our expense!

Immigrants are statistically more likely to claim benefits as most are unskilled and have more children. All this costs money, do you think we can just keep shelling out cash to all and sundry while being £4 trillion in debt and on the verge of collapse?!

Why isn't this upsetting you?! I hope you don't have a child in a school where 30% of the class don't speak English whose education suffers because the teachers time is taken up dealing with them; or Grandparents facing the nightmare of a state funded nursing home. You wouldn't board your dog in a lot of these places believe me. This costs money, if we hadn't got to provide for our univited guests we'd have more for these services. You really don't need a PHD in economics to grasp this. More people taking from the system = more cost and less to go round for everyone. Only middle class champagne socialists fail to make this link while happily spending our nations wealth on the fruits of their immigration policy. Do you know we spend hundreds of £millions a year on translation services?! No other country in the world does this, it's the responsibility of the people wanting to access the services to pay for translation. We're basically paying through the nose for the destruction of our own country!

We've had about 3 million extra people in this country in the last decade thanks to new labours deliberate policy of mass immigration against the wishes of the British people. Do you think this doesn't put pressure on our infrastructure? These people are using the NHS, schools, roads, housing etc etc etc while having never paid a penny in. It's an outrage.
I moved to London in 2007 - used to live in Holland.
My parents were unemployed for 2 years before they got proper jobs here.
People in the EU should be allowed to live wherever they want, skilled or not!
The other problem is that skilled workers are in great in demand. Its the damn companies that can't expand even further.
Reply 31
Original post by marshymarsh
Or because only working EU citizens are allowed to live anywhere, so there is no problem of Europeans coming here and claiming benefits.
There are two Stigmatisms: "Coming over here stealing our jobs"
And now we are in a recession
"Coming over here stealing our benefits"
Both are false.


Rubbish. These stigmatisms are actually more acurately described as valid but used by the left as a cliched pin to deflate any rational argument. There was a govt study that found immigration is displacing British people from jobs. There was an increase of non British workers that exactly mirrored the increase in unemployment.

You'd probably wheel out another stigmatism "British people are lazy and don't want to work". Largely rubbish also.

Also studies proved that it's hitting youth employment the most. I mean come on everyone can see that practically every employee in the traditional jobs that used to be the first step on the job ladder for young Brits; working in a bar, hotel, restaurant, factory, agriculture are populated by Eastern Europeans; while we have mass youth unemployment, c20% i think. How can this have zero impact on British employment?! It's laughable.

These are jobs that young Brits used to fill in their droves now you struggle to see any British people in these positions. It's not rocket science to make that obvious link surely? Unless you're predisposed to ignore facts and reality due to some immovable political belief and confusion about things being racist and being arbitrarily against them.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 32
Original post by Origami Bullets
What most people don't realise is that net EU immigration / emigration is actually negligible - although a lot of EU workers have come here (and let's not forget that they do pay tax here, and spend their money in our shops, thus supporting our economy), we have lost roughly the same number (~1m) of our own citizens who have emigrated to places like Spain!

And they really do take the jobs that a lot of British workers don't want . . . you try finding British people who want to care for incontinent dementia patients. I've seen the demographics of care workers, and a very high proportion of them are non-British. That's not because they are "taking our jobs", but because if they didn't do those jobs then they would be left unfilled, and the people they care for would be left to rot.


What are you talking about?! Not very well read are you?

Net migration - which by the way is a totally false measure of what people are concerned about because it doesn't acknowledge the unprecedented social & cultural changes to our society - is constantly about 250,000 more people arriving than leaving. So you're just plain wrong on that. It's an extra city the size of Leeds every year with all the extra costs and pressure on infrastructure that brings. Not to mention the increasing segragation and fracturing of a previously unified, homogenous country.

Also if 'net' migration was zero would you think that is fine?! You could have a quarter of a million Brits leaving and a quarter of a million foreigners arriving each year and you think there isn't a problem with that?

I'm sorry that is population replacement and is what concerns many decent people worried about their counrty being fundementally changed. Why do you think increasing numbers of Brits want out. It's called white flight!
Reply 33
Original post by billydisco
Why are we basically allowing people to enter this country who have no work? Which retard allowed this?

Why are we not only allowing people who have highly-valued skills? Does the fact we're in the EU mean any unskilled EU national can come here to claim benefits? If this is the case, surely all EU benefits should be the same (inflation adjusted) so that it is not profitable to visit other countries whilst jobless just to receive generous benefits????

Is this another disadvantages to belonging to the EU??


So let me get this straight.

You want foreign nationals who come to England to get highly paid skilled jobs. And all the poorly paid, unskilled jobs to be reserved for UK nationals?

So being at the bottom of the socio-economic scale should be reserved for UK nationals, but being at the top open to everyone? With foreigners pushing UK nationals out of high-earning jobs and competing for university places, while the British have to make do with being on minimum wage?



Or would you rather - unskilled immigrants taking all the poorly paid work while an extensive UK-national only benefits and education system (It is UK residents only - EU immigrants can't claim benefits without first getting permanent residency here) gets UK nationals into highly paid skilled jobs and not having to do the demeaning, poorly paid ones?
Reply 34
Original post by marshymarsh
So an employer wanting an employee who will commit to the company for the long term is bad? He should prefer the 'top grade applicants' who want it for short term work?


No but the government shouldn't allow this situation! A govts reason d'etre is to act in the bests interests of it's people. Having hoards of cheap labour flooding into the jobs market is not good for the British workforce!

This is just the result of PC brainwashing to leap to the defence of immigrants regadless of the facts and go into attack mode to anyone raising these valid FACTS.

You're missing the bigger picture and this statement is wanton naivety. It may suit employers to offer employment to the cheapest/long term applicant but that isn't necessarily good for society as a whole in the longterm. Not difficult to grasp is it.
Original post by DanRBlake
Not very well read are you?

250,000 more people arriving than leaving. So you're just plain wrong on that. It's an extra city the size of Leeds every year with all the extra costs and pressure on infrastructure that brings.


Leeds has a population above 700,000 according to the bbc and wikipedia.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/features/facts/index.shtml
Original post by bahjat93
I think the only one that is false it the "Coming over here stealing our jobs"

How many people from Eastern Europeans have you seen in professional carriers like Economists, Engineers, Doctors?
1 in every 1million
I know quite a few Eastern Europeans working in my field (accountancy), and off the top of my head I can think of those I know working in banking, consulting and law.
Reply 37
Original post by jordanosborn
Leeds has a population above 700,000 according to the bbc and wikipedia.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/features/facts/index.shtml


Derby then. Does it matter?
Original post by DanRBlake
What are you talking about?! Not very well read are you?

Net migration - which by the way is a totally false measure of what people are concerned about because it doesn't acknowledge the unprecedented social & cultural changes to our society - is constantly about 250,000 more people arriving than leaving. So you're just plain wrong on that. It's an extra city the size of Leeds every year with all the extra costs and pressure on infrastructure that brings. Not to mention the increasing segragation and fracturing of a previously unified, homogenous country.

Also if 'net' migration was zero would you think that is fine?! You could have a quarter of a million Brits leaving and a quarter of a million foreigners arriving each year and you think there isn't a problem with that?

I'm sorry that is population replacement and is what concerns many decent people worried about their counrty being fundementally changed. Why do you think increasing numbers of Brits want out. It's called white flight!


*Sigh*

It would appear that you are incapable of reading the post. I was referring to net EU migration. As you can see from this research http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/commentary/targeting-uncertainty-eu-migration-uk there is (with some fluctuations) 0 net migration with the EU.

And I'm not worried about it - our country is not being "fundamentally changed" by gaining a few Frogs and Poles. Plus, the people that tend to come to the UK as economic migrants tend to be young, tax-paying, economically active, fit, healthy (i.e. minimal need for the NHS) and childless (i.e. no need for schools). They actually represent a net gain to the UK's economy. On the other hand, the British citizens who move to Spain (the most popular destination) are usually elderly, economically inactive and increasingly unhealthy i.e. a drain on the UK.

With regards to those coming in from other countries, they usually fall into one of a few categories
- highly skilled migrant workers, doing specialist jobs where there is no suitable Briton available e.g. I have had various non-EU lecturers.
- refugees and asylum seekers, who are fleeing from persecution in their home country. They don't choose to risk their life to come to the UK and live in squalor whilst their claims are assessed because they think it will be a laugh. They do it because it's the only way to save their lives. This was a fairly high profile example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehdi_Kazemi
- foreign-born spouses of British citizens
- young people on reciprocal working holiday visa arrangements with countries such as Australia, New Zealand and Canada. These are young people who come for up to 2 years, spend their life savings, and pay taxes whilst they work here. In allowing these young people here, we also give our own young people the opportunity to go to the other country and do the same thing.
- illegal immigrants, who we're already working to deport.

Really, there's very little more that we can do about migration without being partially responsible for human rights abuses, harming the UK's economy, removing opportunities for young Britons, and preventing UK citizens living with their foreign-born husbands and wives.
Reply 39
Original post by The Mr Z
So let me get this straight.

You want foreign nationals who come to England to get highly paid skilled jobs. And all the poorly paid, unskilled jobs to be reserved for UK nationals?

So being at the bottom of the socio-economic scale should be reserved for UK nationals, but being at the top open to everyone? With foreigners pushing UK nationals out of high-earning jobs and competing for university places, while the British have to make do with being on minimum wage?



Or would you rather - unskilled immigrants taking all the poorly paid work while an extensive UK-national only benefits and education system (It is UK residents only - EU immigrants can't claim benefits without first getting permanent residency here) gets UK nationals into highly paid skilled jobs and not having to do the demeaning, poorly paid ones?

If you are skilled- you are allowed entry.

Why do we need to "import" more benefit claimants??

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