This discussion is now closed.
Check out other Related discussions
- please give advice regarding parents.
- Can anyone help? Benefits and student loan
- How and which of my mums benefits for me will be effected-
- Renting on Benefits
- Fibromyalgia
- Cocky boy beat me up and threatening to beat me up again!
- im feeling lost and hopeless for my future
- Sixth form age limit
- homeschooling for post 16 for mental health
- Mum taking energy conservation to the extreme
- My son was expelled from uni
- Leaving sixth form for college 2 months before first year ends
- I tried to apply to Disabled Student’s Allowance but…
- ESA parent and Student finance
- My mum keeps calling me a slut!
- My dad did this
- I'm 5'10.5 and 16. How tall will I be?
- Funding when you can’t work
- Sharing a room with a sibling
- Should I be allowed to ‘stay off’?
Mum kicking me out at 16 can i claim benefits?
Scroll to see replies
Original post by glelin96
Ok, I've jumped off. Yes, some people need benefits, the people that need them are few and far between but they are present.
Just because all you read in the papers is examples of people living a life of luxury on benefits, does not mean this is the norm. So many families have to rely on benefits because their on a low income. Benefits arn't too high, wages are too low.
Original post by kka25
How come your mom is kicking you out?
US cultual imperialism at its most subtle.
If you've quoted me in this thread, sorry if I haven't replied, I'm losing track of all the replies I'm getting... and I'm getting a bit bored. And a bit tired. So sorry if I'm not as good at arguing as well as a 'Cambridge philosophy student' should obviously be.
I think that's selfishness. We will never agree. Alas.
Why do I need to specify what I mean by helping people? We're being theoretical here... I was just picking up on your 'no helping other people' attitude that you seem to have adopted, which I disagree with. Yes, helping people can include monetary help but not just that.
I really do not have a chip on my shoulder. I don't know what to say to get that through to you. You seem to be happier to disagree. Okay.
Original post by fudgesundae
I'm not advocating helping myself, I'm advocating put my family's needs above those of someone who I have never met. That is not selfishness, which as you said is helping oneself.
I think that's selfishness. We will never agree. Alas.
Original post by fudgesundae
And that's the problem. There are so many ways to 'help people'. It's just a ridiculously vague term you are throwing about.
Oh, and I'm talking about monetary help because the whole theme of this thread was benefits.
And that's the problem. There are so many ways to 'help people'. It's just a ridiculously vague term you are throwing about.
Oh, and I'm talking about monetary help because the whole theme of this thread was benefits.
Why do I need to specify what I mean by helping people? We're being theoretical here... I was just picking up on your 'no helping other people' attitude that you seem to have adopted, which I disagree with. Yes, helping people can include monetary help but not just that.
Original post by fudgesundae
That you have a chip on your shoulder. You stated your achievements but still felt that you had to qualify them with the fact that you didn't live a cushy lifestyle courtesy of your parents.
That you have a chip on your shoulder. You stated your achievements but still felt that you had to qualify them with the fact that you didn't live a cushy lifestyle courtesy of your parents.
I really do not have a chip on my shoulder. I don't know what to say to get that through to you. You seem to be happier to disagree. Okay.
Original post by fudgesundae
A minimum safety net which provides a basic standard of living for those who cannot provide one for themselves is needed. Some of the ridiculous amounts handed out, are not.
JSA at £70 a week is a ridiculous amount? Or £50 if under 25? Yes because you can pay all your bills, feed yourself and pay your rent for that 'ridiculous amount'.
Just remember, many people on benefits have paid their fair share of taxes and NIC in the past/before they needed to rely on benefits for them to get by.
Original post by When you see it...
US cultual imperialism at its most subtle.
When attempting to correct someone please ensure you have researched the matter in question first. Historically Britons would have spelt it Mom as opposed to Mum.
Original post by XxelliexX
So you admit it's selfish.
Quite happily. I am fairly libertarian, though, so I defend their right to be selfish.
Whoah, **** just got personal. Oh, and I love the 'supposedly'. Yes, you have caught me out, I have lied to the TSR community about my degree choice and university in some pathetic attempt to make people like me. Well done.
I wasn't implying you were lying about where you're going to university; rather I only said 'supposedly' because I assumed that your place is conditional upon as of yet unknown exam results.
Maybe you're the one who is poor at making arguments. And actually, I didn't say you had assumed that the OP specifically has failed to advocate personal responsibility.
You
How dare you claim that everyone who is in an unfortunate position is in that position simply because they have failed to 'advocate personal responsibility'.
Looks pretty much like you did to me
You have insinuated that people have got themselves into unfortunate circumstances due to a lack of personal responsibility, I call that judging.
No, I've not insinuated anything: I've explicitly stated that these people are the result of societal failure to advocate personal responsibility, not individual failure to do so.
No, I don't remember the Thatcher years.
Well neither do I. But the economic impact of them was fantastic.
Original post by coopsyy
Just because all you read in the papers is examples of people living a life of luxury on benefits, does not mean this is the norm. So many families have to rely on benefits because their on a low income. Benefits arn't too high, wages are too low.
No, wages are plenty high enough, people just need to have the initiative to go and earn them.
Original post by glelin96
Because you have violent outbursts you assume it is due to ptsd. Because you blame it on ptsd, I would assume you are entitled to benefits such as disability living allowance. I have been through a lot, had counselling and I realize that life goes on, I try not to dwell on the choices others made regardless of what effect they had on me. I have outbursts, I just choose how to deal with them.
Your ignorance is unbelievable. I used to know someone with a form of PTSD. It means that she needs supervision 24/7 to stop her from hurting herself. And she has seizures as a result of her PTSD.
You're pretty much saying "get over it" - it's not that simple.
Original post by XxelliexX
I think that's selfishness. We will never agree. Alas.
I guess we won't. You even defined selfishness in one of your posts, yet you are now going by a completely different definition? It is putting the interests of oneself above those of others. Last time I checked, my family wasn't me, they were 'others'.
Why do I need to specify what I mean by helping people? We're being theoretical here... I was just picking up on your 'no helping other people' attitude that you seem to have adopted, which I disagree with. Yes, helping people can include monetary help but not just that.
Please point out where I have a no helping attitude? I have already said that I advocate a basic welfare safety net for those who can't help themselves. And in your situation with the old lady, of course I wouldn't just leave her there. What I don't advocate, is throwing money at poor people in an attempt to make them productive members of society.
I really do not have a chip on my shoulder.
Well no one is ever going to admit they do, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. I have met a lot of people who have come from poorer backgrounds that are the same.
Original post by adam321
So my mum is kicking me out soon and i wondered what benefits i would get i have ptsd so does that mean i can claim dla and income support? and what kind of place would they put me in? 
btw im 16 years old
btw im 16 years oldYou have ptsd and therefore need help and support rather than being kicked out by your giant lame ass of a mother.
Original post by tufc
Quite happily. I am fairly libertarian, though, so I defend their right to be selfish.
Sigh.
Original post by tufc
I wasn't implying you were lying about where you're going to university; rather I only said 'supposedly' because I assumed that your place is conditional upon as of yet unknown exam results.
I wasn't implying you were lying about where you're going to university; rather I only said 'supposedly' because I assumed that your place is conditional upon as of yet unknown exam results.
Nope, I did the IB, got my results last week, definitely going there.
Original post by tufc
Looks pretty much like you did to me
Looks pretty much like you did to me
Did I mention the OP specifically? Nope.
Original post by coopsyy
JSA at £70 a week is a ridiculous amount? Or £50 if under 25? Yes because you can pay all your bills, feed yourself and pay your rent for that 'ridiculous amount'.
How do you know I was talking about JSA? It isn't really meant to be a long term form of benefits.
Just remember, many people on benefits have paid their fair share of taxes and NIC in the past/before they needed to rely on benefits for them to get by.
I highly doubt that.
Any benefits over minimum wage are just ridiculous. I also don't think that those capable of working should simply get their benefits. Earn them, I'm sure there are plenty of little jobs the government could have people doing.
Original post by OU Student
Your ignorance is unbelievable. I used to know someone with a form of PTSD. It means that she needs supervision 24/7 to stop her from hurting herself. And she has seizures as a result of her PTSD.
You're pretty much saying "get over it" - it's not that simple.
You're pretty much saying "get over it" - it's not that simple.
I have had a SEVERE case of it, I realize what it is like and what it can turn into. But what I also realize is, by taking a combination of counselling and anti-depressants as i have never heard of anyone self-harming as a DIRECT result of post traumatic stress, one can nip it in the bud for want of a better term. And bearing in mind that I went to seminars, meetings at hospitals with some of the top doctors in the country relating to the condition and I haven't heard anything of the sort, I would say it is in the minority.
As I have said, it depends entirely on the internal coping mechanism's of the individual and how far their desires lay.
Original post by fudgesundae
I guess we won't. You even defined selfishness in one of your posts, yet you are now going by a completely different definition? It is putting the interests of oneself above those of others. Last time I checked, my family wasn't me, they were 'others'.
We could get very philosophical and psychological here, but I don't have the patience. I still think it is selfish to only care about yourself and your family.
Original post by fudgesundae
Well no one is ever going to admit they do, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. I have met a lot of people who have come from poorer backgrounds that are the same.
Well no one is ever going to admit they do, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. I have met a lot of people who have come from poorer backgrounds that are the same.
Yes they will, I'm sure loads of people have.
There you go again, assuming you know me...
Original post by glelin96
No, wages are plenty high enough, people just need to have the initiative to go and earn them.
Well to start with, jobs are not easy to come by these days are they?
Plus, minimum wage is 2.60/3.68/4.98/6.08. So take an average 25 year old working for minimum wage, full time.
6.08*35 = 212.08 a week. Which works out at £922.13 a month (848.32 4 weekly) BEFORE tax and NIC, so £838 a month after deductions. Rent for a one bedroom flat where i live = £625pcm AT LEAST plus bills, food, council tax, travel, expenses etc.. Rent for a flat share where i live = £450pcm AT LEAST plus share of bills and council tax, food, travel, expenses etc. Not exactly much is it?
Now picture this average 25year old, working full time on minimum with a child. Factor in extra food, clothes, baby stuff, childcare etc. No where near enough to live on.
Minimum wage needs to be much higher. And sterotyping everyone whos on JSA/unemployed as having no initiative to go and get a job with a high wage, shows you've never had to suffer like many people in this country have.
In Italy the laws says clearly that parents are forced to look after their children UNTIL they are self sufficient, and until them they have to encourage their potential to spring and make the most of their talents. A parent shouldn't waste their child's life for selfishness and just say "go and get job". It's not fair. Children didn't ask to be conceived and parents should know what they are going to face before they decide to have children. In which case they should be ready to do sacrifices in order to make their children lives better.
The state does not grant money to students and it's always the parents paying for tuition and accomodation. This is not socially regarded as an outrage, but as a duty of parents whose greates happiness is meant to be seeing their children successful because of them.
In Italy parents follow their children step by step and work hard, not going on holiday to pay uni to their children, and this is seen as fair. Then parents take a day off work to go and see the graduation ceremony of their children, where they cry because they're proud and they see that their efforts have been paid back.
In Britain I've seen parents being totally uninterested, claiming that it's to make children independent whilst it's only ebcause they wanted to get rid of duties and enjoy their money. So that they have nearly no merit in their children success, and the most they can say when their children get a graduation is "Good for you...".
If a parent kick their child out they would get prosecuted into court and eprsecuted by social assitants, who would strip them bare to ensure that the children have everything they need. If parents can't wait for their children to leave so that they can go back to a teenager life-style partying and going on holiday without a financial burden then they simply shouldn't have children at all.
And it's sad that such unfair and selfish behaviour are socially accepted here in the UK. Iìd like people to get horrified if someone is not helping their children when they are in trouble. What are parents for then?
The state does not grant money to students and it's always the parents paying for tuition and accomodation. This is not socially regarded as an outrage, but as a duty of parents whose greates happiness is meant to be seeing their children successful because of them.
In Italy parents follow their children step by step and work hard, not going on holiday to pay uni to their children, and this is seen as fair. Then parents take a day off work to go and see the graduation ceremony of their children, where they cry because they're proud and they see that their efforts have been paid back.
In Britain I've seen parents being totally uninterested, claiming that it's to make children independent whilst it's only ebcause they wanted to get rid of duties and enjoy their money. So that they have nearly no merit in their children success, and the most they can say when their children get a graduation is "Good for you...".
If a parent kick their child out they would get prosecuted into court and eprsecuted by social assitants, who would strip them bare to ensure that the children have everything they need. If parents can't wait for their children to leave so that they can go back to a teenager life-style partying and going on holiday without a financial burden then they simply shouldn't have children at all.
And it's sad that such unfair and selfish behaviour are socially accepted here in the UK. Iìd like people to get horrified if someone is not helping their children when they are in trouble. What are parents for then?
Original post by XxelliexX
We could get very philosophical and psychological here, but I don't have the patience. I still think it is selfish to only care about yourself and your family.
Well it isn't. You still haven't said how one goes about being unselfish. Is selfishness defined by actions or thoughts? If I spare a thought for those who are less fortunate than myself, am I unselfish?
There you go again, assuming you know me...
As you have done with tufc the whole way through the thread? I also don't have to know you to see what I pointed out.
Original post by fudgesundae
How do you know I was talking about JSA? It isn't really meant to be a long term form of benefits.
JSA or any other benefit for that matter, really are not such a 'ridiculous amount' as you seem to think.
JSA or any other benefit for that matter, really are not such a 'ridiculous amount' as you seem to think.
Original post by fudgesundae
I highly doubt that.
Any benefits over minimum wage are just ridiculous. I also don't think that those capable of working should simply get their benefits. Earn them, I'm sure there are plenty of little jobs the government could have people doing.
Any benefits over minimum wage are just ridiculous. I also don't think that those capable of working should simply get their benefits. Earn them, I'm sure there are plenty of little jobs the government could have people doing.
So everyone on benefits has NEVER paid in to the system? What about the thousands of people that have been made redundant in the last few years and had to go onto JSA and other benefits, they never paid their tax or NIC when they worked? Jesus, get some perspective on life.
Many people on benefits who are capable of working, do do voluntary work/community work.
And if you think of, for example JSA as this is the only benefit that is the same regardless of your situation, as a full time job, £70 is WAY below minimum wage.
Original post by coopsyy
Well to start with, jobs are not easy to come by these days are they?
Had those people gone to university, gone for work placements, taken internships and used initiative. They would have a much higher chance of getting a job, and that job would pay much more.
Original post by coopsyy
Plus, minimum wage is 2.60/3.68/4.98/6.08. So take an average 25 year old working for minimum wage, full time.
The average 25 year old (with initiative) doesn't work at minimum wage but please continue.
Original post by coopsyy
6.08*35 = 212.08 a week. Which works out at £922.13 a month (848.32 4 weekly) BEFORE tax and NIC, so £838 a month after deductions. Rent for a one bedroom flat where i live = £625pcm AT LEAST plus bills, food, council tax, travel, expenses etc.. Rent for a flat share where i live = £450pcm AT LEAST plus share of bills and council tax, food, travel, expenses etc. Not exactly much is it?
Let's take the NATIONAL AVERAGE salary for a graduate, £26000. Accounting for taxes this leaves you around £19600. I would say that accounting for everything you have included, that is plenty.
Original post by coopsyy
Now picture this average 25year old, working full time on minimum with a child. Factor in extra food, clothes, baby stuff, childcare etc. No where near enough to live on.
If anyone that is unable to sustain their job has a child, they deserve what they get in my opinion.
Original post by coopsyy
Minimum wage needs to be much higher. And sterotyping everyone whos on JSA/unemployed as having no initiative to go and get a job with a high wage, shows you've never had to suffer like many people in this country have.
Well picture this, if you are only accounting for the people that are on minimum wage, and you get your wish that the minimum wage be raised, this would mean that companies would make cut backs as far as they can due to the poor economy. This would mean they would be forced onto benefits. The people that have lost their job are no longer paying tax or national insurance, they are instead costing society more. Not one single person would benefit from this. High salaried people, feel nothing.
Middle salaried people, are put through the pressure of making cut backs.
Lower class people, are at a higher risk of losing their jobs, going onto benefits, costing the government money. Where is this a good thing?
Original post by coopsyy
So everyone on benefits has NEVER paid in to the system? What about the thousands of people that have been made redundant in the last few years and had to go onto JSA and other benefits, they never paid their tax or NIC when they worked? Jesus, get some perspective on life.
Again making assumptions as to what I meant. I never said everyone on benefits has never paid taxes. The majority of long term benefit claimants will have not paid significant amounts of taxes in there lifetimes.
Many people on benefits who are capable of working, do do voluntary work/community work.
Many do, many don't. I'm saying it should be a requirement.
And if you think of, for example JSA as this is the only benefit that is the same regardless of your situation, as a full time job, £70 is WAY below minimum wage.
JSA is not meant to help you survive for a long time though. It is meant to keep you ticking until you can find a job to support yourself. It may be well below minimum wage, but the people on minimum wage actually work. I can't believe people complain, you get £70 a week for not working and just searching for a job. So we don't just get paid for working, we can also get paid for looking for work. If it were any higher then there would be zero incentive for people to find a job.
Related discussions
- please give advice regarding parents.
- Can anyone help? Benefits and student loan
- How and which of my mums benefits for me will be effected-
- Renting on Benefits
- Fibromyalgia
- Cocky boy beat me up and threatening to beat me up again!
- im feeling lost and hopeless for my future
- Sixth form age limit
- homeschooling for post 16 for mental health
- Mum taking energy conservation to the extreme
- My son was expelled from uni
- Leaving sixth form for college 2 months before first year ends
- I tried to apply to Disabled Student’s Allowance but…
- ESA parent and Student finance
- My mum keeps calling me a slut!
- My dad did this
- I'm 5'10.5 and 16. How tall will I be?
- Funding when you can’t work
- Sharing a room with a sibling
- Should I be allowed to ‘stay off’?
Latest
Trending
Last reply 1 week ago
I think I have a Cifas Marker on my name , can I still open any banks ?Last reply 3 weeks ago
Has anyone had their student finance paid into their partners or parents bank?Last reply 1 month ago
Introduction to UK Financial regulations and professional integrity SCAMTrending
Last reply 1 week ago
I think I have a Cifas Marker on my name , can I still open any banks ?Last reply 3 weeks ago
Has anyone had their student finance paid into their partners or parents bank?Last reply 1 month ago
Introduction to UK Financial regulations and professional integrity SCAM
