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Reply 20
Original post by Golden_Boy786
This argument is going anywhere.

Whats the dispute all about?

Its not even relevant to the thread.:confused:


You said to Politricks "Just because you come up with statistical analysis doesn't mean your theory is correct. By criticising what the west pakistan did back then. I think you should have mentioned the huge number of muslims that were murdered during the separation."

I'm pointing out that he did mention the huge number of Muslims that were murdered as he said in his comment that Bengalis were murdered
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by longman240
As a Pakistani, I feel sickened by the crimes that we committed against Bangladesh, it should never have happened and the Pakistani media have tried their best to make people forget it ever happened and paint Bhutto as some sort of massive hero. The fact that they still haven't issued an official apology is a sign that we simply refuse cohesion with Bangladesh and an apology is long overdue.

Personally, I think India could not have sustained itself without splitting apart, Muslims were being brutally murdered and endlessly persecuted in India and all the events had to come to a head somewhere and that "somewhere" was Pakistan.


We understand- BUT A PUBLIC APOLOGY IS SINCERELY NEEDED. PAKISTAN should pay for the debt they owe us.
It's nice to see there are open minded people like you though :smile:
Reply 22
Original post by ThatPerson
In 1947, India was split into Pakistan(Muslim Majority) and India(Hindu Majority), do you think this is right?

I don't think it is. I think it is a mark of failure for society to cooperate and get along, regardless of religion. There is no need for 2 majority religions to have separate countries, people should be able to integrate and associate themselves with people no matter what their religion is. The topic is old, but it is a better time to debate over it because we have the benefit of hindsight.

So, do you think it was right for India to be split into Pakistan and India?

EDIT: I forgot the poll, is there a way to add it in?


i think youre placing to much faith in humanity here, there are countless examples of peoples not being able to live harmoniously together with horrific results ensuing; afghanistan, libya, egypt, ireland, america, australia, nazi germany, sudan etc. etc.
in my view id say the partition was the only way forward as we've all seen what happens when a minority is forced to live under an opposing ideology ... civil war, guerilla movements and general dissaray the fact the muslims got their own country [disregarding the horror of the actual partition] in my view probably saved the indian subcontinent from a far worse fate.
Reply 23
This is a brilliant short story called Toba Tek Singh. Takes on the question of The Partition exceptionally well!

http://wordswithoutborders.org/article/toba-tek-singh
Original post by ThatPerson
In 1947, India was split into Pakistan(Muslim Majority) and India(Hindu Majority), do you think this is right?

I don't think it is. I think it is a mark of failure for society to cooperate and get along, regardless of religion. There is no need for 2 majority religions to have separate countries, people should be able to integrate and associate themselves with people no matter what their religion is. The topic is old, but it is a better time to debate over it because we have the benefit of hindsight.

So, do you think it was right for India to be split into Pakistan and India?

EDIT: I forgot the poll, is there a way to add it in?


It is sad that this is what British colonialists forced them to, but it also remains true that Muslims would have been treated as 2nd class citizens had the country remained as one. just as muslims face discrimination and poverty today in India.
Original post by weirdnessandcoffee
We understand- BUT A PUBLIC APOLOGY IS SINCERELY NEEDED. PAKISTAN should pay for the debt they owe us.
It's nice to see there are open minded people like you though :smile:


Pakistan probably isn't in any good financial position to pay reparations to the Bengalis, but the fact that Pakistan can't even bring itself to at least give an apology for its horrendous war crimes shows how politically immature Pakistan is
Reply 26
Original post by High VOLTAGE
It is sad that this is what British colonialists forced them to, but it also remains true that Muslims would have been treated as 2nd class citizens had the country remained as one. just as muslims face discrimination and poverty today in India.


Not all muslims face discrimination and poverty in India. Discrimination and poverty is faced by people of all religious backgrounds. Many government officials and Supreme court judges are muslims. Muslims are treated equally. Those who discriminate are orthodox and believe in an all Hindu India, they belong to certain political parties and believe me every sensible, educated person is against those who discriminate on the basis of religion.
Original post by Politricks
Pakistan probably isn't in any good financial position to pay reparations to the Bengalis


I find it funny how they manage to fund nuclear weapons though ...
There is nothing you can do. When you glare at the past you realize that humanity is retarded just like when you look back at your youth and think "why the **** did I do/wear that?" etc.
Original post by arnoob
I find it funny how they manage to fund nuclear weapons though ...


Probably from US military aid, Pakistan started its nuclear programme just after they lost the war to India and Bangladesh in 1971. The only reason the US supported Pakistan in the 1971 war was to get closer to China and to counter communist Russia during the cold war, while America supplied weapons to Pakistan in the war, the USSR was sympathetic to the cause and supplied military equipment to Bangladesh and India.

When it was becoming clear that Pakistan was about to lose, on the 11th of December 1971, president Nixon sent America's aircraft carrier, the USS Enterprise to the Bay of Bengal, in response, Russia dispatched 2 groups of cruisers and destroyers, and a submarine armed with nuclear missiles into the Bay of Bengal and trailed U.S. Task Force 74 into the Indian ocean.
Original post by Politricks
Probably from US military aid, Pakistan started its nuclear programme just after they lost the war to India and Bangladesh in 1971. The only reason the US supported Pakistan in the 1971 war was to get closer to China and to counter communist Russia during the cold war, while America supplied weapons to Pakistan in the war, the USSR was sympathetic to the cause and supplied military equipment to Bangladesh and India.

When it was becoming clear that Pakistan was about to lose, on the 11th of December 1971, president Nixon sent America's aircraft carrier, the USS Enterprise to the Bay of Bengal, in response, Russia dispatched 2 groups of cruisers and destroyers, and a submarine armed with nuclear missiles into the Bay of Bengal and trailed U.S. Task Force 74 into the Indian ocean.


I know that the USA supported Pakistan and that Bangladesh was supported by the USSR but how are they funding weapons in recent years, relations between the USA and Pakistan aren't exactly friendly.
Reply 31
Original post by Politricks
Probably from US military aid, Pakistan started its nuclear programme just after they lost the war to India and Bangladesh in 1971. The only reason the US supported Pakistan in the 1971 war was to get closer to China and to counter communist Russia during the cold war, while America supplied weapons to Pakistan in the war, the USSR was sympathetic to the cause and supplied military equipment to Bangladesh and India.

When it was becoming clear that Pakistan was about to lose, on the 11th of December 1971, president Nixon sent America's aircraft carrier, the USS Enterprise to the Bay of Bengal, in response, Russia dispatched 2 groups of cruisers and destroyers, and a submarine armed with nuclear missiles into the Bay of Bengal and trailed U.S. Task Force 74 into the Indian ocean.


really informative posts by you so thank you for that.

would you be able to give a similar breakdown of the conflict in Kashmir?

thanks.


regards to the op. I think India should have remained as one but Gandhi's rhetoric made Muslims wary and spurred them to demand Pakistan.

if the nationalist movement was led by subhas chandra bose instead I believe Muslims would not have felt the need to create Pakistan.
Original post by arnoob
I know that the USA supported Pakistan and that Bangladesh was supported by the USSR but how are they funding weapons in recent years, relations between the USA and Pakistan aren't exactly friendly.


Even though relations between Pakistan and the US aren't genuine, the US still funded Pakistan to fight the Taliban after 2001, the US saw this as a necessity. The 'friendship' was scarred when Osama Bin Laden was discovered in Abottabad, Pakistan, I'm not 100% sure, but I think Pakistan still receives military aid even after Bin Laden was found in Pakistan. The US also saw it as a necessity to give military funds to Pakistan during the cold war, so that's probably how Pakistan got its money for its nuclear programme.
Reply 33
Original post by Politricks
Pakistan probably isn't in any good financial position to pay reparations to the Bengalis, but the fact that Pakistan can't even bring itself to at least give an apology for its horrendous war crimes shows how politically immature Pakistan is


Tbh, no country will apologise for anything they've done in the past. This isnt a unique trait of Pakistan imo.
Was India partitioned in fear of a civil war or were there already tensions or perhaps large-scale conflicts in late British India? Could someone summarise it for me? Every time I try to do some research I find something different.
Original post by ugk4life
really informative posts by you so thank you for that.

would you be able to give a similar breakdown of the conflict in Kashmir?

thanks.


regards to the op. I think India should have remained as one but Gandhi's rhetoric made Muslims wary and spurred them to demand Pakistan.

if the nationalist movement was led by subhas chandra bose instead I believe Muslims would not have felt the need to create Pakistan.




This video should gave you a basic idea of the Kashmir issue
Original post by ak137
Tbh, no country will apologise for anything they've done in the past. This isnt a unique trait of Pakistan imo.


A lot of countries have apologised for past war crimes. Germany has officially apologised several times, one of their former chancellors even fell on his knees in front of the Holocaust memorial in the Warsaw ghetto. The German government has paid the state of Israel and victims of the holocaust compensation and still is doing so. It's not just Germany, the Serbian parliament had resolution in which it had apologised for the Srebrenica massacre, there are many more examples. If Pakistan wanted to apologise which they should AT LEAST DO , they could.
Original post by ak137
Tbh, no country will apologise for anything they've done in the past. This isnt a unique trait of Pakistan imo.


There are countries which won't apologise for any wrongs in the past, that's true, it's not exclusive to Pakistan, I shouldn't have made it seem that way, but I don't agree that all countries won't apologise for its wrongs, for example, Germany, they apologised to Israel for the Holocaust, this was probably because Germany has shamed itself so much on the international stage, it knew it couldn't afford any more slip ups by not apologising, it was also more likely out of sincere guilt, which is why Germany is now a more politically mature country.

America on the other hand aren't apologising for events like the Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombings because it probably feels no regret or guilt and knows it can afford to get away with not apologising, America is by far one of the least politically mature countries in the world.
Reply 38
Original post by arnoob
A lot of countries have apologised for past war crimes.

Like the United States have apologised to african slaves? :rofl:


Germany has officially apologised several times,

That was the German government, not the Nazi government. Report back to me when the Nazi government apologies to holocaust victims :rofl:
The German government has paid the state of Israel and victims of the holocaust compensation and still is doing so.

German government is retarded. Israel demands money and germany gives, like a good little bitch.

If Pakistan wanted to apologise which they should AT LEAST DO , they could.

Agreed with the bold part but its never going to happen.

I think id like an apology off the British government first for being under colonial rule for almost a century.

Oh, and revenge negged :wink:
Original post by ak137
Like the United States have apologised to african slaves? :rofl:



That was the German government, not the Nazi government. Report back to me when the Nazi government apologies to holocaust victims :rofl:

German government is retarded. Israel demands money and germany gives, like a good little bitch.


Agreed with the bold part but its never going to happen.

I think id like an apology off the British government first for being under colonial rule for almost a century.

Oh, and revenge negged :wink:


I never said that every country has apologised for war crimes, I was just saying that some countries have done so because you claimed that there would be no country that would apologise for past war crimes. There is no way that the Nazi government would have apologised but then again the Pakistani government which was in charge in 1971 wouldn't have done so either but the current Pakistani government could do so. If the German government was so retarded then it wouldn't be Europe's economic superpower atm... The British government would never apologise for imperialism , there'd be too many countries to apologise to :wink: Oh and yes that's fine :cool:

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