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Original post by Ladders
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girl


Just checking but it would be impossible for me to do it 7 times a day even if i was home alone lol that is just impossible
Original post by tooosh
All addictions manipulate natural mechanisms to override satiety. Impulsivity developed by addictions in general is linked to deltaFosB accumulation, behavioural addictions manipulate dopamine, heroin manipulates your natural opiod receptors, stimulants like cocaine and meth work on a combination of dopamine, (nor)epinephrine etc receptors, alcohol on GABAb receptors etc. "It's a natural reward" is the reason that substances or behaviours are addictive - because they manipulate natural reward mechanisms.
Key word is manipulate, there is no drug that is mimicking or forcing a rush of dopamine, its not an artificial caused impulse in the same way a meth addict's need is caused by the drug. People's sexual urges are naturally occurring, mastubation is not altering those anymore than someone being very attractive or having multiple sexual partners does. Being addicted to meth results in the urge to use coming back again and again, that urge as a sexual urge comes back regardless is biologically driven not by manipulation with artificial chemicals.

Masturbation can be dangerous if not done in moderation in terms of brain changes. But of course, everyone in the West overindulges on anything they can get their hands on. Just because some behaviour or substance has the potential to be beneficial doesn't mean it can't be dangerous. Alcohol, GHB and heroin lower blood pressure but you sure as **** don't want to get addicted to them!
The brain aspect is related to people use of porn or such, there is no such link to mutual mastubation. Its not mastubation which is the linking factor its the forced link between enjoyment and whatever people are fapping over. Over indulgence is what? How do you determine over indulgence, its all driven by hormonal levels leading to different libido and such? The general consensus among scientists is mastubation in terms of reasonable number is more beneficial than harmful.
Reply 62
Original post by Galileo Galilei
Just checking but it would be impossible for me to do it 7 times a day even if i was home alone lol that is just impossible


I suppose you could if you were really determined, depending how quickly you recharge lol
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by zaback21
You girls are lucky !!!


Why are we lucky? We don't always finish sometimes we can't get there :frown:

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Original post by Ladders
I suppose you could if you were really determined, depending how quickly you recharge lol


I have big loads so it takes hours to recharge, pretty crazy xD
Original post by Irish-Cailin
Why are we lucky? We don't always finish sometimes we can't get there :frown:

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Believe me you are, sometimes the big finish isn't that great in other ways
Original post by zaback21
Yes they can. I will be more interested to know how many can they do in a day though.


To answer that question, we can have multiple orgasms in one session, but I find if I've done it once already I find it difficult to do it again on the same day (through masturbation that is, I never come from sex!)
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 67
Original post by SamW78
I believe on a physical level it ages you due to the loss of nutrients (and energy) from ejaculation. Over-masturbation is linked with inability to fight illness and disease plus signs of aging such as baldness & ED.

I hear many stories about relatively relatively young men going bald and having trouble getting it up and keeping it up, whereas pre internet I believe this was a lot rarer, hence the need to use viagra, which I think was released around the same time the internet was taking off (mid 90s).


That's a load of bull, Viagra was discovered by accident, it was given as medication and male patients reported erection as a side effect.
Reply 68
Original post by Irish-Cailin
Why are we lucky? We don't always finish sometimes we can't get there :frown:

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Cos you don't have to worry about happening it prematurely. But yes, in terms of masturbation, can't you girls get as many times you want cos you in control. Men can do it if they can ( They will probably do it 24x7 lol if they could orgasm but not discharge )
Original post by zaback21
Cos you don't have to worry about happening it prematurely. But yes, in terms of masturbation, can't you girls get as many times you want cos you in control. Men can do it if they can ( They will probably do it 24x7 lol if they could orgasm but not discharge )


I suppose, though some girls do cum and squirt haha, and you still have a bit of cleaning up to do anyhway

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Original post by danny111
That's a load of bull, Viagra was discovered by accident, it was given as medication and male patients reported erection as a side effect.


That's correct. Viagra was intended for heart patients. During clinical trials all the men had erections. Kerching! so did the drug companies.
Reply 71
Original post by doggyfizzel
Key word is manipulate, there is no drug that is mimicking or forcing a rush of dopamine, its not an artificial caused impulse in the same way a meth addict's need is caused by the drug. People's sexual urges are naturally occurring, mastubation is not altering those anymore than someone being very attractive or having multiple sexual partners does. Being addicted to meth results in the urge to use coming back again and again, that urge as a sexual urge comes back regardless is biologically driven not by manipulation with artificial chemicals.

The brain aspect is related to people use of porn or such, there is no such link to mutual mastubation. Its not mastubation which is the linking factor its the forced link between enjoyment and whatever people are fapping over. Over indulgence is what? How do you determine over indulgence, its all driven by hormonal levels leading to different libido and such? The general consensus among scientists is mastubation in terms of reasonable number is more beneficial than harmful.


All addictions and natural drives - food, sex, love etc are modulated by the reward system. You have natural healthy urges to masturbate via the same mechanism a porn addict has to get a fix, just on a much smaller scale. Obviously the less stimulation an activity provides, the safer it is (which is why behaviours are less addictive than substances in general; notable exception being porn). "Biological" only means that it's present naturally, not that it can't be manipulated.
A behavioural release of dopamine can still be more detrimental than a substance induced release if it's higher. They usually aren't but people **** a lot more than they take meth.

So I do agree, masturbation in moderation shouldn't cause any problems. I was really referring to masturbating to porn (which nowadays to a lot of people is the only way they can imagine it). Masturbation is definitely the "gateway" to porn problems though and can have problems by itself done in excess but the brain usually does a good job at satiation.

If we can't define overindulgence we can't define "reasonable number." Cavemen were having sex every day but we now know masturbation is hormonally different to sex so who knows?
Reply 72
Original post by Irish-Cailin
I suppose, though some girls do cum and squirt haha, and you still have a bit of cleaning up to do anyhway

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Ha ha lol yes :colondollar:
Reply 73
Yes, you're going to die now enjoy the last couple ofdays you have left by either continuing to choke said chicken or go find a gf/hooker.
I think you stop 'when it hurts'. I highly doubt it affects health directly.

Three times a day though? Meh, not for me.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by tooosh
All addictions and natural drives - food, sex, love etc are modulated by the reward system. You have natural healthy urges to masturbate via the same mechanism a porn addict has to get a fix, just on a much smaller scale. Obviously the less stimulation an activity provides, the safer it is (which is why behaviours are less addictive than substances in general; notable exception being porn). "Biological" only means that it's present naturally, not that it can't be manipulated.
A behavioural release of dopamine can still be more detrimental than a substance induced release if it's higher. They usually aren't but people **** a lot more than they take meth.
But you would never classify people eating popcorn as an addiction. People with a food, sex, or gambling problem have it defined by the negative associations. People eating until they are sick or overwieght, people eating to cope and forming negative connections between food and sadness for example. They then eat when they are sad not when they are hungry. A person eating in itself is not an addiction, the urge to eat is ever present. An drug addict does not not have a natural connection, you aren't naturally addicted to meth, and people end up with problems when that connection is established because its far more powerful than other addictions, the dopamine release of crack or such is far higher than sex or food. Its not something people like doing, most addicts of that form end up using to stave of physical withdrawl symptoms that are not naturally present. The withdrawl from a lack of food or sexual release is not caused by usage it naturally occuring nor do people end up physically sick like a smack addict going cold turkey. Mastubation can be an addiction but its the associations people have with it that make it addictive, people doing negative things such as using it as a tool for their anxiety in forming relationships, thats not a healthy use of masturbation, or people that have weird guilt and shame associations that are detrimental to their mental wellbeing, and becomes their method of coping. It defined by the National Council on Sexual Addiction and Compulsivity has defined sexual addiction as “engaging in persistent and escalating patterns of sexual behavior acted out despite increasing negative consequences to self and others.”

So I do agree, masturbation in moderation shouldn't cause any problems. I was really referring to masturbating to porn (which nowadays to a lot of people is the only way they can imagine it). Masturbation is definitely the "gateway" to porn problems though and can have problems by itself done in excess but the brain usually does a good job at satiation.
I think those links are a problem when people mastubate exclusively to less healthy aspects of porn, things with violent or other negative connotations. Even then most research has showed the negative aspects of porn are far less popular searches than MILF porn or whatever. Almost all the measured things, such a rape failed relationships and such associated negatively to porn have fallen since the advent of VCR and the net, you would expect to opposite if porn was a factor. I think porn just allows people who do have problems to fall into their own little world. People who have unhealthy attitudes linked sex are able to foster those, for example 70% of child molesters are classified as having a sex addiction.

If we can't define overindulgence we can't define "reasonable number." Cavemen were having sex every day but we now know masturbation is hormonally different to sex so who knows?
Its different for every person at different times in their lives and different moods. I would think the behaviours, associations and reasons people engage in mastubation would be far more important the a number.
Original post by zaback21
It might not affect you physically, but psychologically it will have some to full affect. It depends on your dependency on masturbation over sex. Also your porn habits. It will change the way you feel about woman and sex. You will probably have unreasonable expectations when you having sex with a girl you like/love cos of your porn or fantasy.


I've always found this suggestion a bit strange. I know people into all kinds of things that are impossible to do in real life, such as vore. 'Unreasonable expectations' doesn't ruin a sex life.
Reply 77
if you do it more than 3 times salt will come out
3 times a day is probably the upper limit of what you should do, not to say one or two more would be harmful.

IMO The optimal amount is once every 2 days.
Reply 79
Original post by doggyfizzel
But you would never classify people eating popcorn as an addiction. People with a food, sex, or gambling problem have it defined by the negative associations. People eating until they are sick or overwieght, people eating to cope and forming negative connections between food and sadness for example. They then eat when they are sad not when they are hungry. A person eating in itself is not an addiction, the urge to eat is ever present. An drug addict does not not have a natural connection, you aren't naturally addicted to meth, and people end up with problems when that connection is established because its far more powerful than other addictions, the dopamine release of crack or such is far higher than sex or food. Its not something people like doing, most addicts of that form end up using to stave of physical withdrawl symptoms that are not naturally present. The withdrawl from a lack of food or sexual release is not caused by usage it naturally occuring nor do people end up physically sick like a smack addict going cold turkey. Mastubation can be an addiction but its the associations people have with it that make it addictive, people doing negative things such as using it as a tool for their anxiety in forming relationships, thats not a healthy use of masturbation, or people that have weird guilt and shame associations that are detrimental to their mental wellbeing, and becomes their method of coping. It defined by the National Council on Sexual Addiction and Compulsivity has defined sexual addiction as “engaging in persistent and escalating patterns of sexual behavior acted out despite increasing negative consequences to self and others.”

I think those links are a problem when people mastubate exclusively to less healthy aspects of porn, things with violent or other negative connotations. Even then most research has showed the negative aspects of porn are far less popular searches than MILF porn or whatever. Almost all the measured things, such a rape failed relationships and such associated negatively to porn have fallen since the advent of VCR and the net, you would expect to opposite if porn was a factor. I think porn just allows people who do have problems to fall into their own little world. People who have unhealthy attitudes linked sex are able to foster those, for example 70% of child molesters are classified as having a sex addiction.

Its different for every person at different times in their lives and different moods. I would think the behaviours, associations and reasons people engage in mastubation would be far more important the a number.


I still agree with most of what you said. But the reasons behind why one overconsumes has no impact on addiction related brain changes - if they overconsume (depending on the substance or behaviour) they will see receptor downregulation, deltaFosB accumulation, physical tolerance etc. All you have really done here is show why people overconsume and say there must be a reason behind it. Well there doesn't need to be. Masturbation feels great, is in almost infinite supply and easy to do. OP ****s 2-3 times a day. His life might be great and 2-3/day times might be too much for all we know about the subject. It's definitely higher than average.

You are not addicted to meth by default but you are addicted to dopamine. The ONLY difference is that meth, being a physical substance, overrides natural satiety mechanisms more easily. You still have this idea that addiction is a separate thing that only addicts have but the exact same mechanisms behind addiction are behind the need for food, sex etc, just on a smaller scale. EDIT: Quite literally (smaller amounts of deltaFosB).

Food withdrawal is a physical withdrawal and it can kill, just like smack, alcohol etc. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make about withdrawals. Ask any porn, gambling etc addict and they'll bitch to you for ages about their withdrawals. They're not dangerous for the most part since their cause is purely behavioural but that doesn't mean they're necessarily easier.

I don't see why popcorn can't be an addiction. If food can be (and it can, it's been proven) then why can't a specific food be? It's much less likely than food in general I imagine but definitely not impossible.

Rape - who knows. There has been a myriad of factors leading to lower rates of rape and I have no opinion on whether porn has a direct causal link to it.
But how can you say that the failure rate of relationships has gone down when the divorce rate has rocketed?
And what relevance does this have to the points I was making?

It's interesting you mention less healthy genres of porn because whilst you're right in the causes you've listed, genre escalation is quite common and explained by satiety and dopamine receptors without needing psychological triggers - essentially you satiate yourself to say straight porn, wait a day, watch it again etc but then you have desensitized yourself to it. That means you can't get over your satiety and then you switch up genres. I'm sure a lot of people can relate - started on straight porn and moved onto harder stuff.

I think our discussion is a bit pointless since we seem to agree except that you stipulate a psychological cause is required to overconsume. But I've already typed all this out so here you go :rolleyes:
(edited 10 years ago)

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