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D&D Theology's "Ask About Islam" Thread Mk. IV

Surely no one would get caught then?

Yes and history attests that. You saw mass persecution of homosexuals under Christianity whereas 0 (as far as I'm aware) under Islamic empires.

I think even then, it is only limited to sodomy to be witnessed by 4 people.

I don't believe the Hanafi school of thought agrees to this punishment either.

Reply 241

In2deep

14

Original post by gltw

x

I hope you're not serious, the Qur'an is in Arabic.

Reply 242

gltw

Original post by In2deep

I hope you're not serious, the Qur'an is in Arabic.

I hope you're not serious, the Psalms 19 is a song written in Hebrew.

Therefore it is a fair comparison. If you were to chose which of the Arabic and Hebrew versions was best then it would defeat the purpose.

Reply 243

Perseveranze

13

Original post by gltw

By comparing the first surah of the Qur'an and Psalm 19 we can see both express the goodness and holiness of God but when you read them the Psalm seems far more beautiful to me. The Word of God should flow with beauty, so in comparison the Qur'an does not fair well in my opinion.

Spoiler

Any thoughts.

I laughed. You're comparing an english translation? The Quran is in another league when it comes to beauty and elequence of speech.

[INDENT]“...The Qur'an cannot be translated. ...The book is here rendered almost literally and every effort has been made to choose befitting language. But the result is not the Glorious Qur'an, that inimitable symphony, the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy. It is only an attempt to present the meaning of the Qur'an-and peradventure something of the charm in English. It can never take the place of the Qur'an in Arabic, nor is it meant to do so...” - Pickthall M. Marmaduke, The Meanings of the Glorious Qur'an

“All those who are acquainted with the Qur’an in Arabic agree in praising the beauty of this religious book; its grandeur of form is so sublime that no translation into any European language can allow us to appreciate it." - Montet in his translation of the Qur’an explains this unique Qur’anic feature.

[/INDENT]

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 244

gltw

Original post by Perseveranze

x

But the OT is in Hebrew and many of the Psalms are songs which are far more beautiful than Arabic. Only 20% of the muslim world can actually read Arabic. Can you read Hebrew?

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 245

Perseveranze

13

Original post by gltw

But the OT is in Hebrew and many of the Psalms are songs which are far more beautiful than Arabic.

No it's not lmao. And this isn't just Arabic, this is Quranic Arabic, it's like its own language. Big difference.

[INDENT]Taha Husayn, a prominent Egyptian litterateur, in a public lecture summarised how the Qur’an achieves its own unique form:

“But you know that the Qur’an is not prose and that it is not verse either. It is rather Qur’an, and it cannot be called by any other name but this. It is not verse, and that is clear; for it does not bind itself to the bonds of verse. And it is not prose, for it is bound by bonds peculiar to itself, not found elsewhere; some of the binds are related to the endings of its verses, and some to that musical sound which is all its own.

It is therefore neither verse nor prose, but it is “a Book whose verses have been perfected and expounded, from One Who is Wise, All-Aware.” We cannot therefore say it is prose, and its text itself is not verse. It has been one of a kind, and nothing like it has ever preceded or followed it.”[/INDENT]

If you want to understand more about it, read this - http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/?page_id=170

Original post by gltw

Only 20% of the muslim world can actually read Arabic. Can you read Hebrew?

Why would I want to read hebrew?

Anyone who understands Arabic always speaks of the beauty of the Quran (even people who hate Islam/Quran will admit it).

I have never heard this for the Bible or hebrew. Maybe it's good too, but undoubtly uncomparable to the Qu'ran otherwise I would've exclusively heard about it at some point.

As the 18th century George Sale (despite his prejudice against Islam) said -

[INDENT]“The style of the KorÃ¢n is generally beautiful and fluent, especially where it imitates the prophetic manner, and scripture phrases. It is concise, and often obscure, adorned with bold figures after the eastern taste, enlivened with florid and sententious expressions, and in many places, especially where the majesty and attributes of God are described, sublime and magnificent; of which the reader cannot but observe several instances, though he must not imagine the translation comes up to the original, notwithstanding my endeavours to do it justice.”

— from “A Preliminary Discourse”
by George Sale[/INDENT]

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 246

gltw

Original post by Perseveranze

No it's not lmao. And this isn't just Arabic, this is Quranic Arabic, it's like its own language. Big difference.

The True Furqan is an Arabic book which has an identical style of Arabic to the Quran (a message more Christian than Islamic) was read to Muslims Scholars and all were convinced it was the Qoran. One scholar said that what was written was far more beautiful than anything he had ever read in the Quran. [i'm not trying to be disrespectful the scholar was a devout muslim]

Original post by Perseveranze

Why would I want to read hebrew?

Anyone who understands Arabic always speaks of the beauty of the Quran (even people who hate Islam/Quran will admit it).

I have never heard this for the Bible or hebrew. Maybe it's good too, but undoubtly uncomparable to the Qu'ran otherwise I would've exclusively heard about it at some point.

To compare the Quran to the Bible. Hebrew is a beautiful language, especially in song. The Psalms sung in that way are simply amazing. I am no Hebrew specialist and rely heavily on references to books but I hope to within the next few years grasp the language fully in order to full appreciate the beauty of the OT.

A link if you are interested.

It's hard to compare them because they are in different languages. It's like comparing MacDonalds and Burger King, its down to preference. (very poor analogy)

Arabic is a very beautiful language as well but I prefer Hebrew :smile:

Reply 247

Person1001

12

Original post by gltw

I hope you're not serious, the Psalms 19 is a song written in Hebrew.

Therefore it is a fair comparison. If you were to chose which of the Arabic and Hebrew versions was best then it would defeat the purpose.

No. It would make it an invalid comparison. If they were both originally written in the same language then a subjective comparison can be made. :smile:

Reply 248

Organ

13

Is this a mainstream Shia custom?

Reply 249

Perseveranze

13

Original post by gltw

The True Furqan is an Arabic book which has an identical style of Arabic to the Quran (a message more Christian than Islamic) was read to Muslims Scholars and all were convinced it was the Qoran. One scholar said that what was written was far more beautiful than anything he had ever read in the Quran. [i'm not trying to be disrespectful the scholar was a devout muslim]

Ok, lets see a source, a link. :rolleyes:

edit; Lmao, "The True Furqan" was basically plagurism of the Quran -

[INDENT] Other critics called it "poor in quality and ridiculous in content" and "a pathetic attempt to distort the Quranic teaching by reproducing what looks like Quranic verses."[11]
[/INDENT]
Basically taking verses from the Quran and altering the words.

That's why I havn't heard of it, nor is there much about it on Wiki. Some people even believe it's just a hoax.

Original post by gltw

To compare the Quran to the Bible. Hebrew is a beautiful language, especially in song. The Psalms sung in that way are simply amazing. I am no Hebrew specialist and rely heavily on references to books but I hope to within the next few years grasp the language fully in order to full appreciate the beauty of the OT.

A link if you are interested.

It's hard to compare them because they are in different languages. It's like comparing MacDonalds and Burger King, its down to preference. (very poor analogy)

Arabic is a very beautiful language as well but I prefer Hebrew :smile:

There's a difference between the link you gave me and what I'm talking about.

Your link -

1. There's Music in the background
2. The person(s) are singing.

The Quran;

1. No Music in background, just speech.
2. No singing (your not allowed to "sing" God's word)

And it's still beautiful.

That's why people say it in a unique sense that the Quran is very beautiful and elequent. [INDENT]“The Qur’an is unapproachable as regards convincing power eloquence and even composition.” - Hirschfield

“It is the language itself which constitutes the iconic tradition. Not a single word can be taken or heard in isolation. All represent nuclei of meaning that are cumulative and cohere, serving as triggers to activate the profoundest depths of religious consciousness.” - H. Johns. Narrative, Intertext and Allusion in the Quranic Presentation of Job in the Journal of Quranic studies.Vol 1, Issue 1. Edinburgh University Press.[/INDENT]These are just examples, but you can only really appreciate the beauty if you understood Classical Arabic.

But you can believe what you like :redface:

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 250

TheHuman

1

Original post by gltw

But the OT is in Hebrew and many of the Psalms are songs which are far more beautiful than Arabic. Only 20% of the muslim world can actually read Arabic. Can you read Hebrew?

Listen to the first Surah here:

Spoiler

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 251

maljebo

8

Original post by Organ

Is this a mainstream Shia custom?

No, some Shia do this to express their grief at the martyrdom of Imam Hussain(AS), but the majority of Shia reject this

Reply 252

Organ

13

Original post by maljebo

No, some Shia do this to express their grief at the martyrdom of Imam Hussain(AS), but the majority of Shia reject this

Is there any justification they cite in the hadiths for that?

Reply 253

maljebo

8

Original post by Organ

Is there any justification they cite in the hadiths for that?

Not that I know of tbh, but I haven't really researched it.

Reply 254

shady_123

Original post by maljebo

Shia and Sunni's have different views on what constitutes a hadith, and Shia have more stringent rules on what constitutes a reliable hadith, as well as having more reliable hadith.

What is hadith - http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/hadith-science/

Short view on the differences between Shia and Sunni hadiths
http://www.al-islam.org/short/alhadith/

Whaat!? Please read some academic material on this matter and not just "Al-islam.org" because that is just a stupid statement to make. Shia science of hadith has always been weak and this has been admitted by Shia scholars of the past and also of the present. The funny thing is, Most of the books cited by Al-islam as the "Main Ilm-ul-rijal books" for the shia have all been rejected and deemed unauthentic by Khameini and Khoei(Who was probably the most knowledgeable of shia hadith of our times),who both claimed these books were corrupted and distorted and are heavily unreliable.

Ibn Taymiyya's statement on the shia being the most ignorant concerning science of hadith still holds true to this day. When i went through a volume of Al-Kafi last year, I saw chains of narrations going like " so and so heard it from a group of people" Like, what? Who were these groups of people? How is that even a hadith? Especially in Al-kafi which is meant to be the "bukhari" of shia hadith. What a joke.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 255

SaintSoldier

10

In the English translation of the Qur'an, I've noticed that it says stuff like; "We" did X or "We" have X, a lot. Who is "we"? Isn't Allah alone?

Reply 256

SaintSoldier

10

Original post by Perseveranze

No singing (your not allowed to "sing" God's word)

Isn't Qiraat basically singing?

Reply 257

amerzeb

8

Original post by SaintSoldier

In the English translation of the Qur'an, I've noticed that it says stuff like; "We" did X or "We" have X, a lot. Who is "we"? Isn't Allah alone?

the word we is not the plural word but the 'royal' word for we

Reply 258

zxh800

13

What do people think about wishing others a Happy New Year?

Reply 259

mel0n

17

Original post by zxh800

What do people think about wishing others a Happy New Year?

I don't congratulate them for a festival which has no basis in the shari'ah because, as far as I know, by congratulating someone for their festival you inadvertently are approving of the celebration itself. This is the opinion that I follow.

(edited 12 years ago)

D&D Theology's "Ask About Islam" Thread Mk. IV

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