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Original post by It could be lupus
I would say the ideal job is one that you enjoy and allows you to live. Benefiting society would be ideal as well, but you really need to do something that you enjoy since you will probably do it for most of your life.
I suppose the ideal job would allow one to combine the two...unfortunately I'm not sure what mine would be!
Original post by It could be lupus
I would say the ideal job is one that you enjoy and allows you to live. Benefiting society would be ideal as well, but you really need to do something that you enjoy since you will probably do it for most of your life.
I think it needs to be both! Not much good people doing jobs that are useful to society if they hate it! But I think there are ways one can combine both usually.
Original post by around
I love the China example because it's something I've seen first hand.
Is the average standard of living so much higher than it was even 5 years ago? Yes, so much yes. Is there a lot of social discontent? Yes.
Does this outweigh the fact that almost everyone is living better? Who knows.
Is the average standard of living so much higher than it was even 5 years ago? Yes, so much yes. Is there a lot of social discontent? Yes.
Does this outweigh the fact that almost everyone is living better? Who knows.
Unfortunately you can't say the same about South Africa. You drive out of a city and go from somewhere really rich and developed and within half an hour you're in the middle of a shanty town. Then again inner city areas in the States are a similar story.
Jobs 
(Never mind me, just having a small employment crisis in the corner...)
Incidentally, my ideal job would be one that I love. Unfortunately, I don't think anything that I love will have any impact on society beyond general entertainment, but I guess you could consider that beneficial. I certainly doubt that I'm ever going to make very much money, but that's not really very important to me as long as I'm doing something I care about.
Moved back into my college room today and can't quite believe it's my last term here. While in the throes of the aforementioned employment crisis, I don't feel as scared and sad as I thought I would. Instead I feel quite excited about all the future possibilities I haven't discovered yet. I guess that shows it's time to move on
(Never mind me, just having a small employment crisis in the corner...)
Incidentally, my ideal job would be one that I love. Unfortunately, I don't think anything that I love will have any impact on society beyond general entertainment, but I guess you could consider that beneficial. I certainly doubt that I'm ever going to make very much money, but that's not really very important to me as long as I'm doing something I care about.
Moved back into my college room today and can't quite believe it's my last term here. While in the throes of the aforementioned employment crisis, I don't feel as scared and sad as I thought I would. Instead I feel quite excited about all the future possibilities I haven't discovered yet. I guess that shows it's time to move on
I haven't quite worked out what a "banker" is. There are many types of jobs in banks, most of which exist in other organisations. People in the oil industry doing similar jobs to Fred Goodwin equally badly probably get just as much money as he did.
Executive pay clearly isn't a matter of what they deserve. CEOs of large companies are disproportionately overconfident psychopaths (I can't imagine how things went wrong in a system that gives positions of power to overconfident impulsive unempathetic liars who never admit to their mistakes...). You're only ever promoted to a job based upon your performance in a different job. And once you get to that sort of level, it's not obvious how to measure performance anyway: a CEO's impact on company value will often be outweighed by random fluctuations. This isn't to say that competence is irrelevant, but it's nothing like football say (the other place to go for insane salaries) where there is a lot of information available about a player's ability.
There are two arguments that I remember hearing to explain CEO pay:
(1) They're paid more because it's hard to judge their performance.*
(2) The pay makes people less likely to commit fraud: you could make a lot of money fraudulently as the CEO of a bank, so not committing fraud needs to be made more attractive.
*Tim Harford: "The second, and more counterintuitive, prediction of tournament theory is that the more luck is involved in work, the larger the pay gaps should be between the winners and the losers. If Jack's promotion is 90% luck and 10% effort, Jack may be inclined to goof off--unless, of course, the rewards for promotion are absolutely astronomical. And they sometimes are."
Executive pay clearly isn't a matter of what they deserve. CEOs of large companies are disproportionately overconfident psychopaths (I can't imagine how things went wrong in a system that gives positions of power to overconfident impulsive unempathetic liars who never admit to their mistakes...). You're only ever promoted to a job based upon your performance in a different job. And once you get to that sort of level, it's not obvious how to measure performance anyway: a CEO's impact on company value will often be outweighed by random fluctuations. This isn't to say that competence is irrelevant, but it's nothing like football say (the other place to go for insane salaries) where there is a lot of information available about a player's ability.
There are two arguments that I remember hearing to explain CEO pay:
(1) They're paid more because it's hard to judge their performance.*
(2) The pay makes people less likely to commit fraud: you could make a lot of money fraudulently as the CEO of a bank, so not committing fraud needs to be made more attractive.
*Tim Harford: "The second, and more counterintuitive, prediction of tournament theory is that the more luck is involved in work, the larger the pay gaps should be between the winners and the losers. If Jack's promotion is 90% luck and 10% effort, Jack may be inclined to goof off--unless, of course, the rewards for promotion are absolutely astronomical. And they sometimes are."
(edited 12 years ago)
First (of many) post-finals exam on Tuesday, and I'm in no way prepared. Whoops.
Original post by Craghyrax
And the reason is because all humans should be valued equally. No one person's happiness or need for it should outweigh another's. If you think its morally acceptable to put your needs above those of others, then that's your choice But I won't agree with you that its right.
But I won't agree with you that its right.Humans are inherently selfish and I think there are very few people who can claim that their actions follow a belief of valuing all humans equally. Furthermore I'm not convinced that all humans have equal value (to society, not on a moralistic level but in terms of what they can contribute to increase the happiness of others).
Original post by around
I love the China example because it's something I've seen first hand.
Is the average standard of living so much higher than it was even 5 years ago? Yes, so much yes. Is there a lot of social discontent? Yes.
Does this outweigh the fact that almost everyone is living better? Who knows.
Is the average standard of living so much higher than it was even 5 years ago? Yes, so much yes. Is there a lot of social discontent? Yes.
Does this outweigh the fact that almost everyone is living better? Who knows.
From speaking to locals here in Shanghai I get a similar impression. The standard of living here for some (working in international companies or around those areas) is now comparable to that in London - they have everything here that we have back home and are paid enough to take advantage of it. However, they're now becoming unhappy for similar reasons that people do back home - high inflation, government red tape, taxes, etc. Their standard of living is significantly and measurably higher but if you asked them if they're happier that would be an interesting question.
me? certainly, but I guess, we are all dying to live, or living to die...
Original post by ebam_uk
me? certainly, but I guess, we are all dying to live, or living to die...
Original post by Craghyrax
I think it needs to be both! Not much good people doing jobs that are useful to society if they hate it! But I think there are ways one can combine both usually.
Well there is no reason you cannot combine both. For many people they would enjoy a job which helps society. But if you aren't that type of person it really is more important to do a job that they enjoy. Hence why I say the two main features of finding a job is job satisfaction and a decent wage that allows you to live a decent life
Aargh. Aargh. Aargh. Supervisor has just announced a mock on eight days notice. On a day when I already have another three hour mock. And I have a practice project (which is supposed to take ten days), two long supervision sheets and more revision to do before I go back, not to mention the giant recital that I'm going to have to spend half a day doing on Friday.
Okay, breathe. Breathe. No panic attacks. Calm. Calm.
Okay, breathe. Breathe. No panic attacks. Calm. Calm.
Original post by lp386
Aargh. Aargh. Aargh. Supervisor has just announced a mock on eight days notice. On a day when I already have another three hour mock. And I have a practice project (which is supposed to take ten days), two long supervision sheets and more revision to do before I go back, not to mention the giant recital that I'm going to have to spend half a day doing on Friday.
Okay, breathe. Breathe. No panic attacks. Calm. Calm.
Okay, breathe. Breathe. No panic attacks. Calm. Calm.
Do you have to do them? If you think its going to be counterproductive (which it probably is if you can't revise for it properly) then the best thing is to email the supervisor, explain about all the other work you've got and say that you don't think a mock at this particular time would be the best use of the time, or the best time for one generally.
Original post by Zoedotdot
Jobs
(Never mind me, just having a small employment crisis in the corner...)
(Never mind me, just having a small employment crisis in the corner...)
You and me both. I've applied to 8 or 9 jobs now and have got nothing bar rejections. Maybe because I don't want to do any of them and I'm worried that this is coming across in the cover letters. I know what I want to do, I want to play music and build instruments. This is what I've *always* wanted to do. But I don't have the money or skill to do either of those things and I've managed to spend four years of my life preparing me for a life which I have no wish on earth to lead. I should never have gone to university. And all those who say that you should do suchandsuch at university because it is useful in later life are ****ers.
Original post by lp386
Aargh. Aargh. Aargh. Supervisor has just announced a mock on eight days notice. On a day when I already have another three hour mock. And I have a practice project (which is supposed to take ten days), two long supervision sheets and more revision to do before I go back, not to mention the giant recital that I'm going to have to spend half a day doing on Friday.
Okay, breathe. Breathe. No panic attacks. Calm. Calm.
Okay, breathe. Breathe. No panic attacks. Calm. Calm.
I agree with Craggy. What happens if you do badly in the mock? Surely it's so close to the exams that there is little that they can do? I would email your supervisor and explain and if he insists then just don't do any revision and see how you do. At the very least it will give you an idea of what you need to revise the most.
Disclaimer: I annoy lots of people by doing things like this and also got a 2:2.
Original post by ukebert
You and me both. I've applied to 8 or 9 jobs now and have got nothing bar rejections. Maybe because I don't want to do any of them and I'm worried that this is coming across in the cover letters. I know what I want to do, I want to play music and build instruments. This is what I've *always* wanted to do. But I don't have the money or skill to do either of those things and I've managed to spend four years of my life preparing me for a life which I have no wish on earth to lead. I should never have gone to university. And all those who say that you should do suchandsuch at university because it is useful in later life are ****ers.
Bare in mind if you went to another university (eg Manchester) evidence suggests you would be getting a 1st class etc etc..
Why not keep developing your music and building instruments, through your blogs etc... You can start off tbh and keep going until you have a built a corporation perhaps.
Tbh, I can see you applying your engineering to music like your 4th year project....
Original post by ukebert
You and me both. I've applied to 8 or 9 jobs now and have got nothing bar rejections. Maybe because I don't want to do any of them and I'm worried that this is coming across in the cover letters. I know what I want to do, I want to play music and build instruments. This is what I've *always* wanted to do. But I don't have the money or skill to do either of those things and I've managed to spend four years of my life preparing me for a life which I have no wish on earth to lead. I should never have gone to university. And all those who say that you should do suchandsuch at university because it is useful in later life are ****ers.
I'm similar, except I haven't applied for any jobs partly because I know that I can defer doing so until I graduate and partly because I don't have a ****ing clue what I want to do. I know what I'm good at - writing essays and passing exams. It's just that somewhere along the line I missed that employment fairy who dropped a career focus in all my friends' laps. And now it's like I'm begging the employment fairy to come and visit me and she's all like 'nuh-uh, you were too busy reading about Stalin the first time I came round and I'm not coming back now'. I know I'll find something, even if it's just a stop gap rather than something I devote my life to. And you will too - we both have time
its just daunting now.Like you, I don't have the money or skill to do what I have really always wanted to do, which is to write books for children. Maybe one day though
Original post by Zoedotdot
...except I haven't applied for any jobs partly because I know that I can defer doing so until I graduate ...
I tried telling myself that but I can't convince myself. You are graduating this year, too, right? Are you confident you'll find something you're interested in at short notice or do you already have other plans for the rest of 2012?
Original post by Y__
I tried telling myself that but I can't convince myself. You are graduating this year, too, right? Are you confident you'll find something you're interested in at short notice or do you already have other plans for the rest of 2012?
I'm confident of finding temp work through an agency at short notice! I'm not necessarily looking for a job that sets my world on fire this year. I'm lucky in that my parents live in London and have agreed to support me for a while so I don't need to be looking for jobs in the middle of my exams. The general plan at the moment is the temp agency for over the summer (I have a lot of office experience) and look for something slightly more fulfilling while doing that. However, I am intending to do a masters the year after but will probably need to self fund that so want to earn enough to do so but not necessarily find my dream career
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by ebam_uk
Bare in mind if you went to another university (eg Manchester) evidence suggests you would be getting a 1st class etc etc..
Why not keep developing your music and building instruments, through your blogs etc... You can start off tbh and keep going until you have a built a corporation perhaps.
Tbh, I can see you applying your engineering to music like your 4th year project....
Why not keep developing your music and building instruments, through your blogs etc... You can start off tbh and keep going until you have a built a corporation perhaps.
Tbh, I can see you applying your engineering to music like your 4th year project....
I don't want to think about that thanks
I don't think that I'm capable of getting a first anywhere, but certainly I could have got a 2:1 almost anywhere else (I got 59% in third year ffs), which is a pain to put it mildly.Well I could, yes, but the problem with that is money. I can't do a thing with instruments at the moment, that requires years of effort and I don't know whether I'll be successful. It also requires a significant amount of investment and I don't have that available. And if I go down that road then I'm effectively throwing away stable family life, due to irregular finances and self-imposed hardship.
And I would if I could, but I can't find anything like that. Sadly.
Original post by Zoedotdot
I'm similar, except I haven't applied for any jobs partly because I know that I can defer doing so until I graduate and partly because I don't have a ****ing clue what I want to do. I know what I'm good at - writing essays and passing exams. It's just that somewhere along the line I missed that employment fairy who dropped a career focus in all my friends' laps. And now it's like I'm begging the employment fairy to come and visit me and she's all like 'nuh-uh, you were too busy reading about Stalin the first time I came round and I'm not coming back now'. I know I'll find something, even if it's just a stop gap rather than something I devote my life to. And you will too - we both have time its just daunting now.
Like you, I don't have the money or skill to do what I have really always wanted to do, which is to write books for children. Maybe one day though
its just daunting now.Like you, I don't have the money or skill to do what I have really always wanted to do, which is to write books for children. Maybe one day though
See I'm also constrained in that my girlfriend, most of my friends and a lot of my music stuff is in Cambridge and so I'd like to stay around for a few more years. And I absolutely do not want to go back home. So I feel trapped, with nowhere to go and horrible choices ahead. So all I want is a job, of pretty much any kind, as long as it pays OK I don't care. If I get a job then I have some time to try and sort out my life. But no luck so far.
Original post by ukebert
Well I could, yes, but the problem with that is money. I can't do a thing with instruments at the moment, that requires years of effort and I don't know whether I'll be successful. It also requires a significant amount of investment and I don't have that available. And if I go down that road then I'm effectively throwing away stable family life, due to irregular finances and self-imposed hardship.
And I would if I could, but I can't find anything like that. Sadly.
Well I could, yes, but the problem with that is money. I can't do a thing with instruments at the moment, that requires years of effort and I don't know whether I'll be successful. It also requires a significant amount of investment and I don't have that available. And if I go down that road then I'm effectively throwing away stable family life, due to irregular finances and self-imposed hardship.
And I would if I could, but I can't find anything like that. Sadly.
Why not go back to basics, and monetise things like your blogs ( create guides of hypothetically how to make the instruments ie teach others your skills, perhaps consider starting to teach people & think creativeely ) ( create video blogs on youtube etc... get loads of traffic online...
Before you know it your starting from somewhere, but obviously this is the whole route of a hobby leading to a career/ ( No reason why you can't hold a part time job/ whilst you develop your true passion/ career... Just think outside the box a bit lol!
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