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Original post by shyamshah
Yeah, even though he has only played 21 matches. Still nothing to take away from him.
Most cricketers have only played 20 or 30 T20s to be fair.
Sangakaara's a very good batsman, it's fair enough rating him above morgan but personally I rate morgan over Sangakaara in T20s (I probably do in ODIs too personally).
Original post by Strangeclouds
Lizards has a very narrow view on cricket; Dhoni has won both limited over trophies in the last 5 years and successive IPLs. To not include him would be moronic and insulting. And I'm from the other side of the border. I cba to address the rest of your posts.
In ODIs Dhoni's a gun. By far the best wicket keeper batsman. Great captain too.
In T20s he's done very little.
As I said IPL is a domestic tournament. In cricket generally we don't use domestic to rate players, because domestic cricket is weaker than internationals. Dhoni is a very good domestic T20 player, but I struggle to call him a great T20 player when he hasn't done much in internationals. He's been overshadowed by many players in his own team when he's played. Yuvraj, Raina, Gambhir being the most noteworthy of these.
Dunno how you can accuse me of having a very narrow view. I don't see how it's "moronic" or "insulting" not to include him. If you're gonna rate a player priding his domestic success over his international success, that's a little unusual.
Original post by skaran
Kevin Pietersen has a poor international t20 record and this is the only ipl season he has done well in. Also, where is Malinga? He has definitely been the best bowler in t20.
Pietersen, player of the tournament in the last T20 WC, has a poor international T20 record?
Crash, there's no point bothering. Dhoni, with a pretty decent claim to be the best limited overs player ever, is being called 'poor'.
To Lizards, far more important than batting or bowling average when choosing T20 players are current form, ODI performances, strike rate or economy rate, big game performances. It is for this reason that Umar Gul, who has seldom found that yorker length since 2010 shouldn't be considered. Because most players have only played 20 odd games, domestic and ODI games become more important in criteria, because they can show consistency or T20 potential. Average is almost useless, because a knock of 20 (9) is generally more useful than 30 (30). I remember one time Afridi came out and hit 28 off ten against England, and that was the match winning innings even though its a pretty small score.
To Lizards, far more important than batting or bowling average when choosing T20 players are current form, ODI performances, strike rate or economy rate, big game performances. It is for this reason that Umar Gul, who has seldom found that yorker length since 2010 shouldn't be considered. Because most players have only played 20 odd games, domestic and ODI games become more important in criteria, because they can show consistency or T20 potential. Average is almost useless, because a knock of 20 (9) is generally more useful than 30 (30). I remember one time Afridi came out and hit 28 off ten against England, and that was the match winning innings even though its a pretty small score.
Original post by Strangeclouds
Crash, there's no point bothering. Dhoni, with a pretty decent claim to be the best limited overs player ever, is being called 'poor'.
Tbh, Dhoni's iT20 career has been average at best. He's certainly not as good at T20 as he is at one day.
Half of you don't know what you're talking about.
Pietersen and Morgan are excellent T20 players. Dhoni is not, he's an excellent ODI player and there is a difference.
Also how are you not going to include Ajmal and Gul probably the best T20 spinner and T20 fast bowler.
Pietersen and Morgan are excellent T20 players. Dhoni is not, he's an excellent ODI player and there is a difference.
Also how are you not going to include Ajmal and Gul probably the best T20 spinner and T20 fast bowler.
Dhoni's T20 career almost exclusively comprises of coming in to a difficult position after the Indian T20 top order has failed again. Anyone who thinks he's not an excellent T20 player is plain stupid.
Original post by TheProdigy2k9
Also how are you not going to include Ajmal and Gul probably the best T20 spinner and T20 fast bowler.
*Cough* Swann *Cough*
another tight match!
Original post by Captain Crash
*Cough* Swann *Cough*
Really? Mmm, interesting. Swann has suddenly become very underrated for some reason, he's still very very good.
Perhaps it's just bias on my part, I don't know.
My T20 XI:
Gayle
Sehwag
Gambhir (c)
Pietersen
de Villiers (wk)
D Hussey
Mahmood
Steyn
M Morkel
Ajmal
Narine
Dhoni has not been great in T20s so I wouldn't include him. Also Malinga has been quite poor ever since Kohli humiliated him in Hobart.
Gayle
Sehwag
Gambhir (c)
Pietersen
de Villiers (wk)
D Hussey
Mahmood
Steyn
M Morkel
Ajmal
Narine
Dhoni has not been great in T20s so I wouldn't include him. Also Malinga has been quite poor ever since Kohli humiliated him in Hobart.
Original post by TheProdigy2k9
Really? Mmm, interesting. Swann has suddenly become very underrated for some reason, he's still very very good.
Perhaps it's just bias on my part, I don't know.
Perhaps it's just bias on my part, I don't know.
Whilst I might concede Ajmal's current superiority to Swann in tests (at least on the subcontinent), the difference is less clear in limited overs. Indeed, technically speaking, Swann tops the bowling rankings for T20, with ajmal 3rd. (Probably more interesting is that the top 7 bowlers are all spinners....)
In reality, I believe Ajmal and Swann are the two best spinners across all formats, with little to no daylight between them. Ajmal bowls the better variations and has better success against right handers for this reason, but Swann spins the ball a lot more and is better against left handers.
Original post by like a boss
My T20 XI:
Gayle
Sehwag
Gambhir (c)
Pietersen
de Villiers (wk)
D Hussey
Mahmood
Steyn
M Morkel
Ajmal
Narine
Dhoni has not been great in T20s so I wouldn't include him. Also Malinga has been quite poor ever since Kohli humiliated him in Hobart.
Gayle
Sehwag
Gambhir (c)
Pietersen
de Villiers (wk)
D Hussey
Mahmood
Steyn
M Morkel
Ajmal
Narine
Dhoni has not been great in T20s so I wouldn't include him. Also Malinga has been quite poor ever since Kohli humiliated him in Hobart.
Morkel? Steyn? Narine? D Hussey? What is this? Where is Morgan, Malinga, Gul, Watson etc?
He's still a good T20 bowler, again, learn the difference between ODI and T20.
Original post by Captain Crash
Whilst I might concede Ajmal's current superiority to Swann in tests (at least on the subcontinent), the difference is less clear in limited overs. Indeed, technically speaking, Swann tops the bowling rankings for T20, with ajmal 3rd. (Probably more interesting is that the top 7 bowlers are all spinners....)
In reality, I believe Ajmal and Swann are the two best spinners across all formats, with little to no daylight between them. Ajmal bowls the better variations and has better success against right handers for this reason, but Swann spins the ball a lot more and is better against left handers.
In reality, I believe Ajmal and Swann are the two best spinners across all formats, with little to no daylight between them. Ajmal bowls the better variations and has better success against right handers for this reason, but Swann spins the ball a lot more and is better against left handers.
Yeah, agreed. It just comes down to personal preference (and perhaps a little bias :P).
looking at everyone's comments about Dhoni, I agree that he's definitely a better ODI player than he is a T20 player. look at him in this years' IPL, he's been scoring a run a ball in most innings, where others have been scoring much quicker. could be to do with the fact that he needs rest and he's tired out (both mentally and physically) since the 4 nil drubbings in Eng and Aus.
defo changed the game for India though, in ODIs.
defo changed the game for India though, in ODIs.
Original post by like a boss
My T20 XI:
Gayle
Sehwag
Gambhir (c)
Pietersen
de Villiers (wk)
D Hussey
Mahmood
Steyn
M Morkel
Ajmal
Narine
Dhoni has not been great in T20s so I wouldn't include him. Also Malinga has been quite poor ever since Kohli humiliated him in Hobart.
Gayle
Sehwag
Gambhir (c)
Pietersen
de Villiers (wk)
D Hussey
Mahmood
Steyn
M Morkel
Ajmal
Narine
Dhoni has not been great in T20s so I wouldn't include him. Also Malinga has been quite poor ever since Kohli humiliated him in Hobart.
good team,
But, you forgot the gul-dozer!
Original post by like a boss
My T20 XI:
Gayle
Sehwag
Gambhir (c)
Pietersen
de Villiers (wk)
D Hussey
Mahmood
Steyn
M Morkel
Ajmal
Narine
Dhoni has not been great in T20s so I wouldn't include him. Also Malinga has been quite poor ever since Kohli humiliated him in Hobart.
Gayle
Sehwag
Gambhir (c)
Pietersen
de Villiers (wk)
D Hussey
Mahmood
Steyn
M Morkel
Ajmal
Narine
Dhoni has not been great in T20s so I wouldn't include him. Also Malinga has been quite poor ever since Kohli humiliated him in Hobart.
Why is Gambhir in the team? He's not a great t20 batsman. Personally, I think Raina is a better T20 batsman and can bowl a bit as well.
Mumbai 
.
Quality game.
.Quality game.
Original post by skaran
Why is Gambhir in the team? He's not a great t20 batsman. Personally, I think Raina is a better T20 batsman and can bowl a bit as well.
Clearly you have not been watching the IPL. Or the recent IND vs SA T20 match.
Original post by like a boss
Clearly you have not been watching the IPL. Or the recent IND vs SA T20 match.
If we are going by ipl stats, Raina is much better than Gambhir. He's scored more runs and has a higher strike rate than Gambhir and has won more matches for his team. Gambhir is doing well this year but hasn't been brilliant in previous ipl's.
Gambhir has played important innings at important times like the T20 world cup final against Pakistan.
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