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I hate Vegetarians.

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    I hate haters.
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    (Original post by tomheppy)
    Well in a descriptive sense it is a personal choice in this country i.e. the government will not interfere. But in a normative sense it is certainly not because it is morally unacceptable. A personal choice would be choosing a red car or a blue car.
    Morals being subjective.
    If I don't find it morally unacceptable...

    And, the government won't interfere with me trying to kill a human:confused: .

    Anyone else just get a bit worried about their saftey:P:.

    I say we're condemned to be free (Satre clearly stole that from me before I was born ) and thus every choice is surely a personal choice. Unless it has hidden meanings that I'm unaware of.
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    (Original post by BourgeoisRomantic)
    I hate haters.
    Your ego must be a big ****** then:awesome:
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Morals being subjective.
    If I don't find it morally unacceptable...

    And, the government won't interfere with me trying to kill a human:confused: .

    Anyone else just get a bit worried about their saftey:P:.

    I say we're condemned to be free (Satre clearly stole that from me before I was born ) and thus every choice is surely a personal choice. Unless it has hidden meanings that I'm unaware of.
    Not another moral relativist

    My point was that if you tried to kill me then the government would have the right to stop you because what you are doing is morally unacceptable (i.e. NOT a personal choice). It is the same for eating meat.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Your ego must be a big ****** then:awesome:
    What?
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    (Original post by BourgeoisRomantic)
    What?
    meant to be bit.

    Because if you hate haters you h...
    ...oh I'm sure you can work it out. I thought it was intentionally done.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    It's not fail. Someone can have a vegan diet and not be a vegan. A vegan is someone who for moral reasoning avoids animal products/exploitation.

    A vegetarian is as I say someone who avoids meat in their diet, and that is all. Out of curiosity, if I were to become a vegetarian for 5 years, then thought "**** it, I don't want to anymore" and started eating meat, would I have never been a vegetarian?
    No you would have been a vegetarian but you wouldn't be anymore. Vegans are defined by their diet. You seem to have this mixed up somewhat. A vegan doesn't eat any animal products, no meat but no milk, cheese etc. either, whereas vegetarians only don't eat 'meat'. There is no essential philosophical difference between them.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    meant to be bit.

    Because if you hate haters you h...
    ...oh I'm sure you can work it out. I thought it was intentionally done.
    Right... It was a joke by the way. I'm sure you can work it out.
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    (Original post by tomheppy)
    Not another moral relativist

    My point was that if you tried to kill me then the government would have the right to stop you because what you are doing is morally unacceptable (i.e. NOT a personal choice). It is the same for eating meat.
    So it's you who negged me a few months back with that statement...
    ...and you don't think morals are subjective?

    Furthermore what if I don't give authority to the government? The system that says we have rights?

    And you seem to presume that it would be a moral basis in which I would be stopped, not perhaps because if people started killing each other it could have a bad effect on those who enjoy the benefits of society (although some may see moral merit in there being a society).

    The whole point of the end of my post was a bit of tongue and cheek to be honest, but I do agree with what I put.
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    (Original post by Mithra)
    No you would have been a vegetarian but you wouldn't be anymore. Vegans are defined by their diet. You seem to have this mixed up somewhat. A vegan doesn't eat any animal products, no meat but no milk, cheese etc. either, whereas vegetarians only don't eat 'meat'. There is no essential philosophical difference between them.
    I'm physically face palming (and getting weird looks from people in the 24 hour computer room I'm in), have you ever looked these words up before?
    Veganism is not just a diet. Yes that is part of veganism, however that is not all there is to it. Where as with vegetarnism that is all there is to it definition wise.
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    (Original post by BourgeoisRomantic)
    Right... It was a joke by the way. I'm sure you can work it out.
    Which was what I thought...
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    So it's you who negged me a few months back with that statement...
    ...and you don't think morals are subjective?

    Furthermore what if I don't give authority to the government? The system that says we have rights?

    And you seem to presume that it would be a moral basis in which I would be stopped, not perhaps because if people started killing each other it could have a bad effect on those who enjoy the benefits of society (although some may see moral merit in there being a society).

    The whole point of the end of my post was a bit of tongue and cheek to be honest, but I do agree with what I put.
    Don't remember the negging but might have done.

    Nope I don't believe morality is subjective. Morality (almost my definition) must be consistent but this is inconsistent with the claim morality is subjective which states that there is no moral truth,it just varies from person to person. I won't bother going into meta-ethics...

    Whether you think the state has a right to intervene depends upon your political philosophy. If the state is to not intervene then individuals can. essentially an act is not a personal choice when others have the right to stop. This is the crucial distinction between morality and taste.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    I'm physically face palming (and getting weird looks from people in the 24 hour computer room I'm in), have you ever looked these words up before?
    Veganism is not just a diet. Yes that is part of veganism, however that is not all there is to it. Where as with vegetarnism that is all there is to it definition wise.
    Please tell me where you are getting these ridiculous made up definitions from. Every source available would disagree with you, unless you take 'strict vegetarian' to entail some sort of necessary moral code it's just a subsection of the wider 'vegetarian' bracket really.


    edit: wait, are you arguing that not wearing leather should be included in the definition or that a moral basis has to be included? (in the vegan definition)
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    (Original post by Mithra)
    Please tell me where you are getting these ridiculous made up definitions from. Every source available would disagree with you, unless you take 'strict vegetarian' to entail some sort of necessary moral code it's just a subsection of the wider 'vegetarian' bracket really.


    edit: wait, are you arguing that not wearing leather should be included in the definition or that a moral basis has to be included? (in the vegan definition)
    Dictionaries and wikipedia for the most part. As well as every vegan society I've ever been on. It isn't a ridiculous definition, it is the standard definition.
    edit for your edit:
    By definition vegans avoid animal products because of their own personal moral thinking. Not for say, not enjoying the taste of an animal product or the feel or an animal product. I'm going by the strict definition, although not the definition of a 'strict vegetarian' and not the definition that you may hear in day to day life.
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    (Original post by tomheppy)
    Don't remember the negging but might have done.

    Nope I don't believe morality is subjective. Morality (almost my definition) must be consistent but this is inconsistent with the claim morality is subjective which states that there is no moral truth,it just varies from person to person. I won't bother going into meta-ethics...

    Whether you think the state has a right to intervene depends upon your political philosophy. If the state is to not intervene then individuals can. essentially an act is not a personal choice when others have the right to stop. This is the crucial distinction between morality and taste.
    Sorry but what do you mean by right, these are man made concepts as far as I know, and thus if you don't give authority to those rights then they're not relevant to you. Other people can always interfere with what you do. However you can continue to try to do what you do. Thus it is my choice if Ic hoose to try to kill you or not.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Dictionaries and wikipedia for the most part. As well as every vegan society I've ever been on. It isn't a ridiculous definition, it is the standard definition.
    please clarify which point in the edit you are arguing for, if it is the leather one I am well aware that is in the vegan definition and not 'strictly' in the vegetarian one (though I would argue no proper vegetarian would wear leather), however if it is that vegans have to be doing it for a moral reason you are just wrong.
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    Maybe everyone should eat you.
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    (Original post by Mithra)
    please clarify which point in the edit you are arguing for, if it is the leather one I am well aware that is in the vegan definition and not 'strictly' in the vegetarian one (though I would argue no proper vegetarian would wear leather), however if it is that vegans have to be doing it for a moral reason you are just wrong.
    *face palm* I don't necessarily agree that the definition is good, I think that it's a very tricky definition, but it is the definition. I'm afraid to tell you, I am just right.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    *face palm* I don't necessarily agree that the definition is good, I think that it's a very tricky definition, but it is the definition. I'm afraid to tell you, I am just right.
    So you are asserting that morality is an essential component of veganism? Give me ONE definition quote that claims that, wikipedia and every website I have checked so far don't.
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    (Original post by Mithra)
    So you are asserting that morality is an essential component of veganism? Give me ONE definition quote that claims that, wikipedia and every website I have checked so far don't.
    veganism isn't necessarily a moral act but it is far more likely to be due to the mostly exclusively moral acts it contains e.g. no leather products,no milk etc

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