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Reply 40
elpaw
is it just the first round of the tournament, or does it go into quarter-finals, semis, etc?


The number of games refers only to the number of games in the league stage of the tournament.
bono
But you would need a sort of nth term formula to calculate the number of games played per group, depending on the number of players in that group.

That would be the first step? :confused:


Yeah, that's pure maths :tongue:
lgs98jonee
i havent used any stats to do q

i havent dunnit i hasten to add
Reply 43
In the original grouping, say we had n groups of a people, and so in the second there were n+1 groups of b people.
So we have total number in tournament =
na = (n+1)b
And total number of games
n(aC2) for the first grouping, and
(n+1)(bC2) for the second.
We are given that

n(aC2) = 55 + (n+1)(bC2)

Now, writing out the triangle thingy, u can see that aC2 are triangular numbers. The nth triangular number is given by the sum of all numbers from 1 to n. And after some manipulation, you get

n(a^2-a)/2 = 55 + (n+1)(b^2-b)/2
n(a^2 - a - b^2 + b) = 110 + b^2 - b

Use na = (n+1)b, then you get

b(n^2(1+b) + n + b) = 110

Now, 110 = 2x5x11, so b must be either 2, 5, 11, 10, 22, 55, 110

Try each case.


I expect ive gone wrong in the algebra somewhere tho.
JamesF
In the original grouping, say we had n groups of a people, and so in the second there were n+1 groups of b people.
So we have total number in tournament =
na = (n+1)b
And total number of games
n(aC2) for the first grouping, and
(n+1)(bC2) for the second.
We are given that

n(aC2) = 55 + (n+1)(bC2)

Now, writing out the triangle thingy, u can see that aC2 are triangular numbers. The nth triangular number is given by the sum of all numbers from 1 to n. And after some manipulation, you get

n(a^2-a)/2 = 55 + (n+1)(b^2-b)/2
n(a^2 - a - b^2 + b) = 110 + b^2 - b

Use na = (n+1)b, then you get

b(n^2(1+b) + n + b) = 110

Now, 110 = 2x5x11, so b must be either 2, 5, 11, 10, 22, 55, 110

Try each case.


I expect ive gone wrong in the algebra somewhere tho.

i did something similar but couldnt get any of the values to work...surely as there are 55 fewer matches with seconding grouping, b should be 5 or 11 but i am tried so am going to bed :-(
JamesF
In the original grouping, say we had n groups of a people, and so in the second there were n+1 groups of b people.
So we have total number in tournament =
na = (n+1)b
And total number of games
n(aC2) for the first grouping, and
(n+1)(bC2) for the second.
We are given that

n(aC2) = 55 + (n+1)(bC2)

Now, writing out the triangle thingy, u can see that aC2 are triangular numbers. The nth triangular number is given by the sum of all numbers from 1 to n. And after some manipulation, you get

n(a^2-a)/2 = 55 + (n+1)(b^2-b)/2
n(a^2 - a - b^2 + b) = 110 + b^2 - b

Use na = (n+1)b, then you get

b(n^2(1+b) + n + b) = 110

Now, 110 = 2x5x11, so b must be either 2, 5, 11, 10, 22, 55, 110

Try each case.


I expect ive gone wrong in the algebra somewhere tho.

isnt it MINUS 55 not +??
Reply 46
I dunno, it doesnt work anyway.
Reply 47
You're close, 110 is on the right lines :d
Reply 48
damn, ive got a polynomial with T and n. (T:=total n:=number-per-league)

now ive just got to extract the "n and T are whole numbers" solution
elpaw
damn, ive got a polynomial with T and n. (T:=total n:=number-per-league)

now ive just got to extract the "n and T are whole numbers" solution


I've done Polynomials and Factor Theorem etc. in P2. :smile:
Reply 50
bono
I've done Polynomials and Factor Theorem etc. in P2. :smile:


The factor theorem is a special case of the remainder theorem, they really should teach the remainder theorem first.
Reply 51
ZJuwelH
The factor theorem is a special case of the remainder theorem, they really should teach the remainder theorem first.

isnt it obvious anyway?
elpaw
isnt it obvious anyway?


We haven't done that, we did Polynomials and Factor Theorem in P2.

What is it by the way?
Reply 53
elpaw
isnt it obvious anyway?


Only when you've actually learned the remainder theorem.
ZJuwelH
Only when you've actually learned the remainder theorem.


Which is?
Reply 55
bono
Which is?


"When a polynomial f(X) is divided by (X-A) the remainder is f(A)"

And the factor theorem:

"If f(X) is a polynomial and f(A)=0, then (X-A) is a factor of f(X)"

That is, the factor theorem is the remainder theorem with no remainder.
ZJuwelH
"When a polynomial f(X) is divided by (X-A) the remainder is f(A)"

And the factor theorem:

"If f(X) is a polynomial and f(A)=0, then (X-A) is a factor of f(X)"

That is, the factor theorem is the remainder theorem with no remainder.


Will I be doing the remainder theorem in my next pure maths module then???
Reply 57
bono
Will I be doing the remainder theorem in my next pure maths module then???


For me it's in P2. Maybe P3 for you. It may involve long division which is a pain. The theorems from what I quoted aren't too clear on their own I know, but a few examples later all is easy. Don't worry about it.
ZJuwelH
For me it's in P2. Maybe P3 for you. It may involve long division which is a pain. The theorems from what I quoted aren't too clear on their own I know, but a few examples later all is easy. Don't worry about it.


:wink:
elpaw
damn, ive got a polynomial with T and n. (T:=total n:=number-per-league)

now ive just got to extract the "n and T are whole numbers" solution

that is wot i got too :-(

i got n(g^2+g-2gn)=110

where g-no of groups
n-total no of teams

is the above wrong 'theone'??

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