Iraq in 2009

Democracy

I see. But they are not the government. You said Iran is not a dictatorship because there is an opposition. There is no opposition within the government.

Of course there is. Haven't you watched the news lately? There is a lot of confrontation and conflict.

I know. I went to it. Mousavi still stood there whilst they killed tens of thousands of innocents however. And under Khatami the media situation carried on detoriorating. You are aware of the causes of the 1999 student protests, aren't you? And that Khatami didn't take the student's side?

Mousavi was prime minister during the war, had he objected, they would have removed him, they wouldn't have listened to him. On the Khatami Issue, the problem was not his, but the power of the opposition. He still did a lot. BTW are you called Arash or something to that affect?

That's not good enough.

Of course it isn't, but i didn't feal a need to talk about that when i was talking about Iraq and how Iran is better than them.

Reply 22

There is no doubt Iraq has been stabilised in the short term. But i think long term, the fact that the US have been arming the Sunni's and particularly the Sunni Arab groups to fight 'Al Qaeda' suggests the war in Iraq is not over yet, i think this strategy will come back to haunt them, all the sooner considering Al Qaeda have all but been wiped out.

So, who knows.. :dontknow:

Reply 23

montevideo

If someone has benefited from the Iraq War, it certainly has not been gay people and non-Muslim religious minorities. NGOs such as AI and HRW are very concerned about the state of human rights in Iraq, in particular for those two groups.

Reply 24

Democracy

20

pasargad

Of course there is. Haven't you watched the news lately? There is a lot of confrontation and conflict.

That is a power struggle within opposing factions of the same clan. None of these men are fighting against the Constituion, Velayat e Faqi, the Guardian Council etc. They are simply trying to use Ahmadinejad's weak position to get power.

Mousavi was prime minister during the war, had he objected, they would have removed him, they wouldn't have listened to him. On the Khatami Issue, the problem was not his, but the power of the opposition. He still did a lot. BTW are you called Arash or something to that affect?

No, I am not called Arash.

Also: That still doesn't pardon or exonerate Mousavi.

Reply 25

Aeolus

There is no doubt Iraq has been stabilised in the short term. But i think long term, the fact that the US have been arming the Sunni's and particularly the Sunni Arab groups to fight 'Al Qaeda' suggests the war in Iraq is not over yet, i think this strategy will come back to haunt them, all the sooner considering Al Qaeda have all but been wiped out.

So, who knows.. :dontknow:

Iraq has been destabilsed and that is why AQ has been able to get into Iraq. They were not there under Saddam.

I think the biggest mistake America made was to arm the Sunni minority against the Shia majority.

Reply 26

pasargad

Iraq has been destabilsed and that is why AQ has been able to get into Iraq. They were not there under Saddam.

I think the biggest mistake America made was to arm the Sunni minority against the Shia majority.

That is what i am saying. The US armed the Sunni's then disarmed them during the invasion, putting the Shia's in power. Now they are arming them up again. They either have a lot of faith in Sunni self control, or they are making another sstupid mistake.

Reply 27

Aeolus

That is what i am saying. The US armed the Sunni's then disarmed them during the invasion, putting the Shia's in power. Now they are arming them up again. They either have a lot of faith in Sunni self control, or they are making another sstupid mistake.

They are arming the Sunnis because they don't want the Iranian backed Shias to have too much power in Iraq. I don't think that they had the long term stabity of Iraq in their minds when they did this, this was at the time when they thought they could invade Iran as well and so they wanted a "quick fix" to contro the Shias in Iraq.

Reply 28

pasargad

They are arming the Sunnis because they don't want the Iranian backed Shias to have too much power in Iraq. I don't think that they had the long term stabity of Iraq in their minds when they did this, this was at the time when they thought they could invade Iran as well and so they wanted a "quick fix" to contro the Shias in Iraq.

Oh right, so the whole 'Were arming them to fight Al Qaeda' thing was just a front? It wouldn't surprise me to be honest. I cant see this ending well for Iraq.

Reply 29

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/15/opinion/15iht-edweiss.html

Aeolus

Oh right, so the whole 'Were arming them to fight Al Qaeda' thing was just a front? It wouldn't surprise me to be honest. I cant see this ending well for Iraq.

They didn't arm them just for AQ, they armed them for the Mahdi Army too.

Reply 30

CandyFlipper

OP

16

Why the **** are we arming Sunnis?! They're the dicks. Oh Jesus Christ, if anything we should arm the shia's so they can go and help Irans revolution. :yep:

Don't Sunnis all want to kill 7 Shia's or something?

Reply 31

Democracy

20

CandyFlipper

Don't Sunnis all want to kill 7 Shia's or something?

I don't know about that but they're certainly not keen on them, Shias have been declared by Sunnis to be "worse than the Jews" :teehee:

Reply 32

CandyFlipper

OP

16

Democracy

I don't know about that but they're certainly not keen on them, Shias have been declared by Sunnis to be "worse than the Jews" :teehee:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/15/opinion/15iht-edweiss.html

Shia's must be well stingy then. :eek3:

Pakistan has millions of Shia's even though its a Sunni majority there, does that lead to tensions like the mixture sometimes does in Iraq?

Reply 33

http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2009/09/lesley-hazleton-on-the-shia-sunni-distinction/
http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/5302491/iraq-will-never-have-a-happy-ending.thtml

CandyFlipper

Why the **** are we arming Sunnis?! They're the dicks. Oh Jesus Christ, if anything we should arm the shia's so they can go and help Irans revolution. :yep:

Don't Sunnis all want to kill 7 Shia's or something?

Ive linked some very good articles below(the spectator one is a brilliant analysis of post-war Iraq). I think the sunni/shia divide is fascinating, but to be honest, without experiencing what it is like to have a sworn enemy, i personally find it quite hard to understand the hate between these two groups on an emotional level, in the same way i could never understand the religous squibbles between catholics and protestants. :dontknow:

Reply 34