Change, what change?

Continuing to appease fascist regimes around the world e.g in Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Obama is the most overrated individual in the history of humankind.

The question is, when will Barack Chamberlain and Fuhrer Ahmadinejad finally meet :teehee:

Reply 2

Obama is the President of the United States, not the President of the world. America has the same interests as it did under Bush and Obama, as POTUS has to look out for them just like any other President or Prime Minister would.

Reply 3

Democracy

Continuing to appease fascist regimes around the world e.g in Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Stop throwing the word "fascist" around. As much as you might dislike the governments of Iran/Saudi Arabia, they aren't "fascist" according to any reasonable definition of the word.

Reply 4

Welsh_insomniac

I thought the war in Afghanistan is legitimate and largely on the ethical side? (As far as wars go).

Plus, like what someone else said. He is the president of the U.S.A, not the U.K. He does not have to look out for your interests.

Reply 5

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascism#Noun

Don_Scott

Stop throwing the word "fascist" around. As much as you might dislike the governments of Iran/Saudi Arabia, they aren't "fascist" according to any reasonable definition of the word.

A far right political regime, usually totalitarian, ideologically based on centralized government, government control of business, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights.

Yep, the Iranian government and its various organs, bonyads, etc control most major business in Iran, there is repression, opposition figures are usually silenced (Chain Murders and the regular closure of reformist newspapers), a cult of personality whereby Khomeini and Khamenei are appointed as "God's representative on Earth" and their portraits are painted on each street corner and the good of the "revolution" and "Islam" is always put above individuals rights.

I assure you, it's very pointless to attempt to "correct" me on matters relating to Iran's politics or history. When I say that the Islamic Republic is a fascist dictatorship, that's because it is. This isn't my opinion, it's a fact.

Reply 6

Darth Maul

Lets see what he does after four years.

Reply 7

Phalanges

Personality goes a long way.

Reply 8

Thanks, though I'm perfectly serious. Unless you're totally brainwashed and/or on the Islamic Republic's payroll it's impossible to view them as anything except fascist dictators.

Reply 9

Democracy

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascism#Noun

Yep, the Iranian government and its various organs, bonyads, etc control most major business in Iran, there is repression, opposition figures are usually silenced (Chain Murders and the regular closure of reformist newspapers), a cult of personality whereby Khomeini and Khamenei are appointed as "God's representative on Earth" and their portraits are painted on each street corner and the good of the "revolution" and "Islam" is always put above individuals rights.

I assure you, it's very pointless to attempt to "correct" me on matters relating to Iran's politics or history. When I say that the Islamic Republic is a fascist dictatorship, that's because it is. This isn't my opinion, it's a fact.

That's essentially just the definition of an extremely authoritarian autocratic state. The Iranian Mullahs don't have the same political ideals as the Italian fascists. They don't have the same admiration for the ideas of Nietzsche, the ultra-nationalism/racism, the same belief in a modern centralised state etc.

It's an authoritarian theocratic state not fascist. Fascism is a dead ideology, only "fascism" now exists.

Reply 10

Bagration

Democracy

******* owned

Reply 11

Don_Scott

That's essentially just the definition of an extremely authoritarian autocratic state.

Which is also the definition of fascism :rolleyes:

Please stop wasting my time. You decided to post some misinformed bull****, if it was anyone else on TSR they would have fell for it, unfortunately that won't work on me with regards to Iranian affairs.

The Iranian Mullahs don't have the same political ideals as the Italian fascists. They don't have the same admiration for the ideas of Nietzsche, the ultra-nationalism/racism, the same belief in a modern centralised state etc.

Absolute rot. According to your defintion then fascism died with Mussolini. Here's a thought: I'm going to trust mainstream political definitions more than your great ideas.

It's an authoritarian theocratic state not fascist. Fascism is a dead ideology, only "fascism" now exists.

Okay, really, whatever. Just because you've lost the argument doesn't mean you should start revising what political terms mean.

Reply 12

I agree, it is not a facist state neither is it a dictatorship, it is a theocracy. You are probably using that word in a derogatory sense, because like Don said, Facism is a dead Ideology.

Reply 13

pasargad

I agree, it is not a facist state neither is it a dictatorship, it is a theocracy. You are probably using that word in a derogatory sense, because like Don said, Facism is a dead Ideology.

Bateman: did you decide to reincarnate yourself again?

Being a theocracy is not mutually exclusive with being a dictatorship. Shockingly enough, very often the two go hand in hand.

Fascism is dead is it eh? Too bad the rest of the world doesn't think so...

Bagration

******* owned

I try my best... :colondollar:

Reply 14

Democracy

Which is also the definition of fascism :rolleyes:

According to your stupid definition of fascism, the majority of states in history would be "fascist" despite the fact that fascism as an political philosophy didn't develop until the start of the 20th century. You are ignoring what made fascism unique.

Democracy

Absolute rot. According to your defintion then fascism died with Mussolini. Here's a thought: I'm going to trust mainstream political definitions more than your great ideas.

It pretty much did die with Mussolini. That's what happens when you lose such a massive war and participate in such evil.

Democracy

Okay, really, whatever. Just because you've lost the argument doesn't mean you should start revising what political terms mean.

I'm not "revising" anything, merely clarifiying.

You haven't even said any of importance in this post here. Anyway, just because they aren't "fascist" doesn't mean that they aren't bad.

EDIT: I'm NOT defending the state of Iran. Merely protecting words from misuse.

Reply 15

Don_Scott

It's not "my stupid definition", it's the world's stupid definition :h:

By today's standards, I don't doubt that most states were fascist. But that is the mistakes of the past which can be forgiven as we were ignorant. What makes fascism all the more evil is that people today are still trying to propagate it when we really ought to know better.

It pretty much did die with Mussolini. That's what happens when you lose such a massive war and participate in such evil.

Well if only that were true. Sadly fascism is still alive and kicking all over the world. The whole of academia and the political community know it, I am at a loss to see why you think it's "dead".

Thanks, but to quote Profesh, "I like big words and I shall not prevaricate". Fascism has a very precise definition, if you like I can whip out my Oxford Dictionary of Politics, but frankly I don't see the need. The point however is that the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran fits very snugly within this definition. Let's call things as they are.

Reply 16

Democracy

Bateman: did you decide to reincarnate yourself again?

Being a theocracy is not mutually exclusive with being a dictatorship. Shockingly enough, very often the two go hand in hand.

That is the second time you have called me Bateman, care to explain?

Going back to the topic, Iran is not a dictatorship, it is a theocracy. I am sure you know what the constitution entials; but to summarise, Iran is not a democracy, people can only choose from the candidates that have the Supreme leaders aproval, and the fact that there are two camps, the reformists and conservatives and the fact that there are opposition newspapers to begin with (which are then closed!), means that it is not a dictatorship. It is what it is, a theocracy.

I told you in the other thread, don't let your dislike for the government of Iran to over ride your judgement. Saying that Iran is not a Facist state does not mean that one supports the IRI. A state can be oppressive and have dictatorial traits without being facist.

Reply 17

Democracy

It's not "my stupid definition", it's the world's stupid definition :h:

It most certainly isn't. You got it off Wiktionary not an academic source. Simplistic dictionary definitions are irrelevant to real historical analysis.

Democracy

This is nonsense. The ideas of fascism didn't appear before a century ago. We already have words for what you are describing: tyranny, autocratic, authoritarian etc. Fascism may essentially be all those things but not all those things are inherently "fascist".

Democracy

Well if only that were true. Sadly fascism is still alive and kicking all over the world. The whole of academia and the political community know it, I am at a loss to see why you think it's "dead".

No, it isn't. You have some disorganised fascists in Italy, perhaps but it certainly isn't a strong movement.

Democracy

Again, dictionary definitions aren't so relevant (although the Oxford dictionary would be more reliable). The theocrats of Iran just don't believe in many of the fascist attributes which I mentioned. Yes, they are authoritarian, autocratic, tyrannical and maybe even totalitarian but that isn't enough to make one a fascist. According to you, many other nations around the world today would be fascist when they clearly aren't.

Reply 18

Don_Scott

It most certainly isn't. You got it off Wiktionary not an academic source. Simplistic dictionary definitions are irrelevant to real historical analysis.

For the love of God.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

It says the same thing, except in different words.

Well put together they do form a fascist state which is what I was describing Iran as. And they nearly always come together.

Like I said, I don't give a damn about your definition, I've provided two sources to back up the accepted definition of fascism. The Islamic Republic of Iran fits within those definitions.

pasargad

That is the second time you have called me Bateman, care to explain?

Not really. I made my point.

Going back to the topic, Iran is not a dictatorship, it is a theocracy. I am sure you know what the constitution entials; but to summarise, Iran is not a democracy, people can only choose from the candidates that have the Supreme leaders aproval, and the fact that there are two camps, the reformists and conservatives and the fact that there are opposition newspapers to begin with (which are then closed!), means that it is not a dictatorship. It is what it is, a theocracy.

The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran was the biggest pack of lies ever sold to Iran's people. The way it was written made it totally vulnerable to Islamofascism, and predictably that's what did happen. You keep saying "Iran is a theocracy", theocracies can be dictatorships too.

I reject the Green Path of Hope, Khatami and Mousavi. These men are not against Khomeinism, the Constitution or Velayat e Faqi. They are the weakest, most detestable creatures in Iran that attempt to cosy up to Iran's people whilst at the same time appeasing thugs like Khamenei. They are no opposition. The true opposition is dead, in prison or in exile, and it is also the common (wo)man on Iran's streets who is now getting ready to fight this regime.

I told you in the other thread, don't let your dislike for the government of Iran to over ride your judgement. Saying that Iran is not a Facist state does not mean that one supports the IRI. A state can be oppressive and have dictatorial traits without being facist.

Sure, but in this case Iran actually is fascist.

Reply 19