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failed to get on pgce course

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Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
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    (Original post by *Interrobang*)
    The school I worked at as a TA (not an HLTA, which is the level 3 qualification) used lv 3 ones to cover PPA, but the teachers planned the lessons. It worked fine. It does depend on how much schools give them tho
    Yeah, it does work. Although, the level 3 TA's were spread out when there were high sickness levels, so we would lose our TA3 and get a TA2 or 1 and it would be mayhem as they weren't used to our class, and vice versa when I and others were moved about. Was hard on TA3's acting as teacher's in classes not their own as well. School's are cutting costs, but I suppose it's better to have people you know than random supply staff - also it was a special school so a lot of the children responded better to staff they knew (sort of) and the staff knew their capabilities, behaviours etc.
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    The PGCE course in UK is just a BIG JOKE.....First of all they hardly consider any applications, when they consider you, they take an rigorous interview as if they are gonna give a million pound Job or will give you the PGCE certificate after the interview. You are gonna take all sorts of exams & Test during the PGCE course and will not give the certificate if you fail then whats the point for this rigorous process of Admission.
    ....On the other hand the government is saying there is shortage of Teachers and not enough people taking interest in Teaching..How dumb is that where you are turning down other people by this nonsense process of giving the admission. How many people agree ?
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    (Original post by djsquare1827)
    The PGCE course in UK is just a BIG JOKE.....First of all they hardly consider any applications, when they consider you, they take an rigorous interview as if they are gonna give a million pound Job or will give you the PGCE certificate after the interview. You are gonna take all sorts of exams & Test during the PGCE course and will not give the certificate if you fail then whats the point for this rigorous process of Admission.
    ....On the other hand the government is saying there is shortage of Teachers and not enough people taking interest in Teaching..How dumb is that where you are turning down other people by this nonsense process of giving the admission. How many people agree ?
    Most of the courses are very competitive so they use this process to get the best applicants. If you don't cut the mustard and the next person does, well it's just tough. Trainees will eventually be responsible for the learning of many children, they want to make sure they are choosing the right people for the job. It is a tough job and it has a bad retention rate.
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    Also there is not a shortage of teachers at all - there are actually many excellent qualified teachers who are still unemployed because there are no jobs.
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    (Original post by *Darcie*)
    Most of the courses are very competitive so they use this process to get the best applicants. If you don't cut the mustard and the next person does, well it's just tough. Trainees will eventually be responsible for the learning of many children, they want to make sure they are choosing the right people for the job. It is a tough job and it has a bad retention rate.
    You missed djsquare1827's point. They are suggesting that PGCEs are competitive because of inappropriate interview techniques. The fact you mention poor retention rates does not prove that PGCEs are a tough qualification (teaching is not an objective skill, like cooking or painting and decorating, so the method of assessment is completely inappropriate...), but that the interview techniques have not been successful.

    It is blatantly obvious to anyone who has experience with a number of providers that interviewers are not seeking some objective standard in applicants (i.e. experience or knowledge related to QT[L]S), but rather making personal judgements on a whim, knowing that their incompetence will be masked by the number of total number of applicants. The complete lack of feedback to those who are rejected suggests as much.

    Having said that, it seems like djsquare1827 was led to believe that gaining a place upon a PGCE was easy, when it is very subject specific. It would be interesting if they elaborated upon their earlier comment to explain their negativity.
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    (Original post by Suzanathema)
    Also there is not a shortage of teachers at all - there are actually many excellent qualified teachers who are still unemployed because there are no jobs.
    Well you are not aware but check the link...As per UKBA immigration experts Secondary Teachers are in shortage list which means they are open to hire international Teachers.

    http://www.workpermit.com/uk/tier-2-...ation-list.htm
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    (Original post by djsquare1827)
    Well you are not aware but check the link...As per UKBA immigration experts Secondary Teachers are in shortage list which means they are open to hire international Teachers.

    http://www.workpermit.com/uk/tier-2-...ation-list.htm
    That's not really a very accurate source tbh. The list says that maths and some science specialists are shortage - that's traditionally true only of maths and physics, but I know some physics specialists who couldn't get jobs so it's clearly no longer accurate.
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    (Original post by djsquare1827)
    The PGCE course in UK is just a BIG JOKE.....First of all they hardly consider any applications, when they consider you, they take an rigorous interview as if they are gonna give a million pound Job or will give you the PGCE certificate after the interview. You are gonna take all sorts of exams & Test during the PGCE course and will not give the certificate if you fail then whats the point for this rigorous process of Admission.
    ....On the other hand the government is saying there is shortage of Teachers and not enough people taking interest in Teaching..How dumb is that where you are turning down other people by this nonsense process of giving the admission. How many people agree ?
    Firstly, universities are limited by the government by how many places they offer and assessed by OFTSED on their completion rates. Added to this, the PGCE is a tough course so expecting high standards at interview isn't surprising. Given the multi-faceted nature of teaching, a simple personal interview isn't enough to allow the interviewers to properly assess your potential, so some teaching based exercises are also involved.

    It's not easy, but If you think that it's as bad as a "million pound job" it's actually considerably easier than the graduate jobs interviews i went for, which were multi-round with each round involving a knowledge test, a group exercise and a personal interview.

    The course itself is hard. In order for you to be certified as a teacher and achieve QTS you need to meet the teaching standards required, although this does turn into a box ticking exercise there are solid rationales for each standard. Likewise the skills tests are there to assess that you have a bare minimum of english, maths and ICT skills (and are far and away the easiest part of the course).

    The overall aim is to produce a QTS certified professional that is capable of surviving in a school and teaching effectively. I can personally testify that the NQT year was the at the time the hardest year of my life, closely followed by the year after where all the "training wheels" that NQTs are supported with are removed and you are expected to survive on your own.

    I am taking on a trainee next year, which will involve exposing students in my own classes, and those of other teachers, to a raw, partially knowledgable individual with unproven ability. They are required to have significant amounts teaching time, and be expected to take over classes who will have GCSE or A-level exams that year. The potential for them to do damage to students education, some of which i will have taught over the course of many years, is massive and the responsibility for the student's learning still remains with me. Whilst i will support and assist their development I want them to be as up to that challenge as possible, I would rather have no trainee than a poorly motivated or ignorant one and so hope that the university they come from is rigorous in it's entry criteria and interview methods, even for Chemistry which is a shortage subject.

    (Original post by evantej)
    It is blatantly obvious to anyone who has experience with a number of providers that interviewers are not seeking some objective standard in applicants (i.e. experience or knowledge related to QT[L]S), but rather making personal judgements on a whim, knowing that their incompetence will be masked by the number of total number of applicants.
    I can't speak to QTLS, however my experience (albeit of only one PGCE provider) of interview was that the format seemed sensible, the tasks we were asked to perform were reasonable ones that allowed us to demonstrate skills that were indicators of our potential teaching ability, and the questions asked in the personal interview questions were asked that probed the weaknesses in my application. Given that the teaching styles of full trained teachers vary massively (without any one necessarily being wrong), the indicators to be looked for in applicants must be diverse and by their nature subjective.

    Once you meet the primary criteria - degree relevance and classification, experience in schools - it's all going to be pretty subjective. But so are university or job interviews in general. Personality, confidence, body language and even the "vibes" that the interviewer gets about how the interviewee are all massive factors.

    (Original post by Suzanathema)
    That's not really a very accurate source tbh. The list says that maths and some science specialists are shortage - that's traditionally true only of maths and physics, but I know some physics specialists who couldn't get jobs so it's clearly no longer accurate.
    Strange, we still struggle to get good applicants to interview for science. Even for Biology we only got a couple worth interviewing. Physics, Maths and Chemistry are seen as shortage subjects, though obviously the ease of getting a job depends on a number of things, not least how picky you are about the schools you apply to and how wide a geographic area you are prepared to look in.
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    (Original post by gingerbreadman85)
    [...] I can't speak to QTLS, however my experience (albeit of only one PGCE provider) of interview was that the format seemed sensible, the tasks we were asked to perform were reasonable ones that allowed us to demonstrate skills that were indicators of our potential teaching ability, and the questions asked in the personal interview questions were asked that probed the weaknesses in my application. Given that the teaching styles of full trained teachers vary massively (without any one necessarily being wrong), the indicators to be looked for in applicants must be diverse and by their nature subjective.

    Once you meet the primary criteria - degree relevance and classification, experience in schools - it's all going to be pretty subjective. But so are university or job interviews in general. Personality, confidence, body language and even the "vibes" that the interviewer gets about how the interviewee are all massive factors. [...]
    For every half-decent provider who probes the weaknesses of an applicant's personal statement there will be others who do not even have the applicant's information with them at the interview, who do not even look at the applicant during the interview because they are too busy filling in paperwork, who ask the same generic questions for every interview, and who simply want to hear their own views of teaching parroted back to them.

    I have had four PGCE interviews over two years in completely different areas of the UK - two for secondary, two for further education – so I think I have a reasonable sample to base my comments upon; and I have previous experience of all four universities so I am not making a snap judgement about their education department.

    I would describe two of the universities as awful. Everything about the interview process sucked, from the organisation of the actual day to the staff doing the interviewing. One of the universities conducted the worst interview I have ever been to. Another university was mediocre. Their organisation sucked and because the candidates were not updated about their applications, all but one of them had been called to the interview unnecessarily (i.e. the full-time course was full and only recruiting people for the reserve list). The last university was good. It was the only university that conducted interviews individually and did not involve a teaching task. All the staff were excellent, from the administrator who signed me in and took care of my documentation to the teacher from the placement school sitting in on the interview itself. No one had a chip on their shoulder, was jaded and pessimistic, or was overworked and simply wading their way through their x applicant that day.

    Having said that, I find much of your comment inconsistent. You talk about indicators of potential teaching ability that can be demonstrated, yet also insist on the subjectivism of the entire process, both in recruiting teachers and in assessing teaching styles. Judging by your own standards of 'having someone up to the challenge of teaching', much of the interview processes is completely superfluous and has nothing to do with teaching. That seemed to me djsquare1827's complaint. All the bull**** that is involved with getting on a PGCE in the first place, both in terms of attitude and paperwork.

    The guff about PGCE students potentially damaging your students education is pure egoism. The 'responsibility for the student's learning still remains with me'! Oh my. Here was me thinking that students were responsible for learning...
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    (Original post by Suzanathema)
    That's not really a very accurate source tbh. The list says that maths and some science specialists are shortage - that's traditionally true only of maths and physics, but I know some physics specialists who couldn't get jobs so it's clearly no longer accurate.
    Well that is very accurate, you can crosscheck on UKBA website. Its deep somewhere in there website. I am sure about it because I am an International student so need to be updated with this kind of information for my Visa purpose...
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    (Original post by djsquare1827)
    The PGCE course in UK is just a BIG JOKE.....First of all they hardly consider any applications, when they consider you, they take an rigorous interview as if they are gonna give a million pound Job or will give you the PGCE certificate after the interview. You are gonna take all sorts of exams & Test during the PGCE course and will not give the certificate if you fail then whats the point for this rigorous process of Admission.
    ....On the other hand the government is saying there is shortage of Teachers and not enough people taking interest in Teaching..How dumb is that where you are turning down other people by this nonsense process of giving the admission. How many people agree ?
    This post sounds really quite bitter - I presume you applied and got rejected? I understand you are an international student, but your spelling, grammar and sentence structure could do with some improvement. Maybe that is where you had the problem? Or maybe you came off just as rude and arrogant at your interview?

    The PGCE selection process is not a joke in the slightest.They have to turn people down because the are not suitable. Not necessarily because the process is completely flawed. Yes, the dropout rate could be lower, but that could also be because the people before the interview were not warned how difficult the course is!
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    (Original post by ponpon14)
    This post sounds really quite bitter - I presume you applied and got rejected? I understand you are an international student, but your spelling, grammar and sentence structure could do with some improvement. Maybe that is where you had the problem? Or maybe you came off just as rude and arrogant at your interview?

    The PGCE selection process is not a joke in the slightest.They have to turn people down because the are not suitable. Not necessarily because the process is completely flawed. Yes, the dropout rate could be lower, but that could also be because the people before the interview were not warned how difficult the course is!
    Good to hear different suggestions & opinion. Just to clarify I have just posted this on behalf of my wife who has Teaching experience for 3 yrs and she is an assistant teacher from last 3yrs in UK. I agree there are some spelling and grammatical errors in my post but that is irrelevant to the issue I am raising. I am not writing my thesis to be so precise with my spelling & grammar. I have completed my Masters from UK with A levels. This is just a casual chat about different opinion. Coming back to the point I would not be so bothered if it was rejection in the interview but I am talking about the time duration which leads to frustration and no explanation about the rejection. You can apply in just 3 colleges or Uni at once. They take more then a month to reply you back with apparently no rejection reasons given whatsoever. The candidate should have the right to know on what grounds the application is been rejected so that he or she can do some changes accordingly for the next application. I agree that I should have explained the content in my first post but yes this is my point. Thanks for all your replies and look forward to discuss further.
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    I have been rejected for my Primary Pgce ,I have a full year experience as teaching assistant in Uk and 4 year teaching experience in oversease at International schools.I also worked with UNICEF on varioun projects involving work with children.I worked realy hard to prepare for my interview .As I have done teaching assistant course as well so I was able to disscuss the all school policies INCLUSION,SAFEGUARDING ,ala bla .I actively participated in group activity and showed my enthusiasm and passion for teaching in my individual interview.BUT I AM STILL REJECTED .....i just dont understand where did I go wrong I put my heart and soul in preparing my interview and on the interview day I was so confident as there was nothing which I ding know ..I read all the news paper for educational issues properly and disscussed them whenever required....This i s so discouraging why it has been so difficult ..it has demoralised me entirely and it gave me an impression that If i couldnt get through in this after lot of hard work ,.i would not be able to successful anywhere ,.....:mad:....I am totally shattered
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    (Original post by djsquare1827)
    The PGCE course in UK is just a BIG JOKE.....First of all they hardly consider any applications, when they consider you, they take an rigorous interview as if they are gonna give a million pound Job or will give you the PGCE certificate after the interview. You are gonna take all sorts of exams & Test during the PGCE course and will not give the certificate if you fail then whats the point for this rigorous process of Admission.
    ....On the other hand the government is saying there is shortage of Teachers and not enough people taking interest in Teaching..How dumb is that where you are turning down other people by this nonsense process of giving the admission. How many people agree ?
    110% agreed
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    (Original post by sjn1984)
    I was a teaching assistant for 10 years, two of those based specifically in an english deparment.

    I achieved a good degree in English.

    I have been a cover supervisor for the past two years, based in an english department. This included me planning, preparing and taching my own groups, who all reached their exepeced targets and were praised for the wrk they had achieved.

    I have been rejected from the english PGCE course?! I don't know what else I can do? Unfortunatly I guess its just a case of them liking you or not.

    (Original post by Mooni)
    I've been rejected from all four of my choices; 2 SCITTs and 2 PGCEs, despite having worked as a TA and a teacher in 3 countries my entire working life (6 years so far). My degree is in TEFL and MFL and my most recent rejection was because "you lack experience in the classroom", meanwhile, my classmate from Uni who has spent a total of 1 day in the classroom got in because he speaks Spanish...I feel rather upset because all I have ever wanted is to teach, and now I'm a bit stuck, whilst someone who only decided a couple of weeks ago to apply as "something to do", gets a place, because he speaks another language. Why couldn't they just say that I didn't offer what they want, rather than telling me on the phone that the last 6 years of my life are somewhat irrelevant to a career in teaching.

    Woah...I find this really scary I'm teaching TEFL now and was hoping it would give me an edge over the competition when applying for the PGCE. You both sound like really good candidates so I have no idea why you didn't get accepted onto the course. I'm sorry I can't offer you any advice but I hope you and everyone else who didn't get on it this year get on next year!

    Also, just curious but Mooni, if your degree was in MFL, surely you can speak a foreign language too? If not, what were you applying to teach?
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    (Original post by ~ Purple Rose ~)
    History.

    Her experience was a couple of weeks helping in a school, she didn't decide until quite late on that she wanted to do teaching.
    I only had a few days experience in a school, but I have been accepted on to a course (Schools Direct).

    I think that there are various factors that are taken into account. In my case, I think 'real world' experience counted for a lot.

    Don't give up. I worked for 12 years in jobs that I didn't really feel suited to before deciding I wanted to teach: and subsequently being accepted on to a course

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