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goodmen
Hi sophie i didnt bother reading what you just said but would you like to go out sometime?


Loool
Reply 21
Smiz
Your opinions?


Stupid idea.

If they still have that 'exam momentum' they'll be better placed to teach students. IMO.
L i b
The only teachers at my school who I knew had 'proper jobs' beforehand were all obnoxious. The so-called business education department in particular was staffed entirely by former secretaries, HR officers and other dullards who were essentially bitter that they'd failed at what they were supposed to be teaching us.


I found this too, there are two teachers I know very well, one who was a self-employed electrical engineer and the other a petroleum geologist who now teach at my school. Both were successful in their careers but the fast paced life got too much for them when they got families etc... They are generally show far less empathy for others and are quite rude and abrupt into the bargain. Nevertheless, I quite like both of them lol.
I quite agree and think the Government have made a great start to this in inviting bankers who failed catastrophically last year due to incompetence and greed in their jobs to apply for fast track as teachers.

What a stupid OP!
Reply 24
Ehh. I don't think you should force them to do it, but I don't understand why some teachers don't do that? We have some teachers that have come straight from uni/teaching college whatever and I just think that by the end of their career they must just be so institutionalized having spent their entire life in education. Several teachers have said to us that if we are thinking of doing teaching we should go out do some jobs and get some life experience first, and then go into teaching.
Reply 25
Bobifier

There is just so much wrong. If nothing else, it's the kind of thing the government would come up with, and when you see the educational regulations the government comes up with, you really don't want to be associated with them...



I thought the government were doing the opposite?
I think that sounds like a good idea, because of two reasons. Firstly, I had so many teachers who had only ever existed within the education bubble - they went to school, then they went to university, then they did teacher training at a school, then they were a teacher and spent their career in school. They knew nothing of how the real world works - they never learnt to work with adults*, to make practical decisions, to just not be part of schools. I've only ever had two really great teachers who took this route.

Secondly, a requirement to have another job for a couple of years puts a few more years between the teacher and the students. Having a 'proper' job also forces you to grow up (university is, for many, one big party; going straight from that to an environment where you have to act as a role model for young people?), so it's not just years but maturity. One of the most inappropriate teachers I ever had was one who was young enough to feasibly be a sister to me, and tale had it that she'd run into her students whilst out at weekends in bars and whilst clubbing (I never went out at weekends, I don't know if she ever actually did).

* My former head of year was about twenty years younger than both of my parents. He was told by them more than once not to speak to them like they were pupils my age, but he just didn't have any idea how to do that. He wasn't a horrible person, he'd just never learnt to live in the adult world.
Reply 27
hypocriticaljap
I quite agree and think the Government have made a great start to this in inviting bankers who failed catastrophically last year due to incompetence and greed in their jobs to apply for fast track as teachers.

What a stupid OP!


I'm not saying that people who have failed in their careers should then consider teaching, I just think that teachers will have spent all of their life at school and not have any real "world of work" education.

I don't think they should be fast tracked either just because they have work experience, they would do a normal degree, get a job, then go on to do a teaching qualification and start teaching.

Also, I think it would help get rid of the stereo type that teachers are people who failed.
Reply 28
DaveSteed24
maybe in subjects like maths and the sciences where this is possible - but how do you see English at work in real life - or history? - i agree that engineering would give a wider knowledge of maths but with the more 'academic' (couldn't think of a better word :s-smilie:) subjects - hard to see how they'd experience say english - you could work in a publishers i suppose - but this doesn't really give you an understanding of books themselves but rather how a book is put into print - i.e. irrelevant to teaching - and what about history - unless you own a time machine this'd be tricky


Good point, obviously it is easier for more practical subjects, however, I think any kind of real world experience would be good.
Not really. Teachers should want to teach. You don't have to have had a job to be passionate about a given subject.
Reply 30
I don't think it's so much the age gap that makes teachers pushovers, I think it's more to do with personality. I know some really old teachers who are complete pushovers, and some young teachers (for example my friend's A level teachers) were pretty strict/harsh...
TheSownRose
I think that sounds like a good idea, because of two reasons. Firstly, I had so many teachers who had only ever existed within the education bubble - they went to school, then they went to university, then they did teacher training at a school, then they were a teacher and spent their career in school. They knew nothing of how the real world works - they never learnt to work with adults*, to make practical decisions, to just not be part of schools. I've only ever had two really great teachers who took this route.

Secondly, a requirement to have another job for a couple of years puts a few more years between the teacher and the students. Having a 'proper' job also forces you to grow up (university is, for many, one big party; going straight from that to an environment where you have to act as a role model for young people?), so it's not just years but maturity. One of the most inappropriate teachers I ever had was one who was young to feasibly be a sister to me, and she'd often run into her students whilst out clubbing.

* My former head of year was about twenty years younger than both of my parents. He was told by them more than once not to speak to them like they were pupils my age, but he just didn't have any idea how to do that. He wasn't a horrible person, he'd just never learnt to live in the adult world.


That entire post seems to be naive to the fact that teachers are real people though. Just because you work in a school it doesnt mean that its your whole world and you have no life or other interaction with adults outside of your job. They all still pay mortgages, have friends, go to pubs, socialise, get drunk, have families, go on holidays etc the same as everyone else. They have a vast range of life experience outside of their jobs. You dont by any stretch of the imagination have to have worked in another industry, to acquire those skills. In addition, they do work with other adult- other teacher. Teachers work very closely with one another.

If that head of year didnt know how to speak to adults, then frankly that was a flaw within him, and many people, not just those who teach have that.

Im not suggesting you didnt know teachers were real people or anything like that, I know and understand what you're getting at, but im sure others wont, so felt the need to just present the flip side to what you said :p:
paddyman4
If there was an abundance of teachers, schools could be picky and, like any other employer, take interesting experience into account.

As it is, there is a shortage of teachers, at least in some subjects. The gain from this proposition is outweighed by the negative effect on children that a greater shortage would cause.


This.

"Mallory, education is the silver bullet. Education is everything. We don't need little changes. We need gigantic, monumental changes. Schools should be palaces. The competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be making six figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge to its citizens, just like national defense. That's my position. I just haven't figured out how to do it yet."
Sam Seaborn, The West Wing

We don't have fierce competition to teach, and there aren't high salaries so the idea isn't feasible. Who's going to establish themselves in another career and then leave it to earn a meagre starting salary as a teacher?

Not enough people is the answer. And there aren't enough teachers as it is. So irrelevant of whether it would improve the quality of teaching or not, it simply wouldn't work in the current system
Reply 33
Yeah, in McDonalds. To learn to handle all the chavs, innit.
When I first saw the thread title I thought it's a stupid idea but after actually reading your post and thinking about it, most of the really good teachers that I have/had worked somewhere else before. My stats teacher taught for a while, then worked at a bank as a statistician, then he had enough of the job so he returned to teaching (good for us! he's really amazing!) and my bio/chem teacher worked in a lab for a while as well. This is not always true though, but maybe there is a correlation.
No, they dont need experience working elsewhere.

They just need to not be retards.
timetokill
They all still pay mortgages, have friends, go to pubs, socialise, get drunk, have families, go on holidays etc the same as everyone else. They have a vast range of life experience outside of their jobs.

In my admitting limited experience with teachers, a lot of them seemed to do these sorts of things with other teachers. For example, in my entire time at school - all thirteen years of it - it appeared that almost all of my teachers were married to other teachers, or people who had been teachers at some stage.

That said, not all of them are going to be like this and I apologise for giving the impression that I'm unaware teachers have lives. I was just trying to get across that requirements to have jobs outside of education might iron out the bubble effect in those who are inclined towards it.
touchofclass
This.

"Mallory, education is the silver bullet. Education is everything. We don't need little changes. We need gigantic, monumental changes. Schools should be palaces. The competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be making six figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge to its citizens, just like national defense. That's my position. I just haven't figured out how to do it yet."
Sam Seaborn, The West Wing

We don't have fierce competition to teach, and there aren't high salaries so the idea isn't feasible. Who's going to establish themselves in another career and then leave it to earn a meagre starting salary as a teacher?


Yeah, the (science) teachers I have met who worked somewhere else before becoming a teacher accepted like 10 grand pay cuts. You're not going to improve teaching by forcing people into a better paid job. Few people will be brave enough to leave a job like that to become a teacher, with little idea whether teaching will actually work out for them.

Love the quotation.
Reply 38
I find this debate interesting because I want to teach foreign languages but recently have started thinking about getting a few years work experience teaching English abroad (I know it's still teaching) or working in tourism and travelling to improve my languages. However, I don't know if I will be in a financial position then to leave and do a PGCE or if I'll change my mind because I'll have commitments and it might be harder.

It's hard for me to say because two of my teachers really stand out; one worked in his profession beforehand but the other came straight from uni so yeah lol :smile:
Reply 39
I'm doing a PGCE at the moment and it seems like I'm one of the few people on my course who hasn't worked between now and uni.

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