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Damn right. Everybody else in the private sector is going through this ********* recession, why should public workers be any different?

Oh, that's right, because they can strike and not get fired. :rolleyes:
Reply 21
Clubber Lang
funny, coz i thought the opublic sector workers were kicking up a fuss about ridiculously low pay rises the last few years whilst the private sector was riding high.


As always

http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13990191&CFID=83590804&CFTOKEN=98588610

As an example, Look at what BA staff are going through and then try telling me the public sector will ever face those sort of conditions.
Reply 22
EssexDan86
I work in the public sector, and plenty of us work very hard, thank you very much! I agree with the current proposed Labour policy that pay rises should be limited to less than 1% annually, with pay freezes for senior officers (who earn megabucks). The Tory proposal to freeze all salaries above £18k is ridiculous though. Nurses, teachers, civil servants, council workers, police etc don't exactly earn megabucks, and they're being unfairly targeted as a political football.

Those responsible for the recession should be bearing more of the burden, not regular citizens.


Well Labour would try to go for a more popular policy! But since they've been in power for the last 12 years, the budget deficit is only growing. There isn't an endless supply of money! Something has to give.
Bearing in mind that the top rate of tax is being increased to 50% so it's not like no one else is affected.
Reply 23
EssexDan86
I work in the public sector, and plenty of us work very hard, thank you very much! I agree with the current proposed Labour policy that pay rises should be limited to less than 1% annually, with pay freezes for senior officers (who earn megabucks). The Tory proposal to freeze all salaries above £18k is ridiculous though. Nurses, teachers, civil servants, council workers, police etc don't exactly earn megabucks, and they're being unfairly targeted as a political football.

Those responsible for the recession should be bearing more of the burden, not regular citizens.


Everyone is to blame.
If everyone gave more money in tax, spent less of the public's money (ie no crime, no falling ill, no need to educated, saved money and didnt need a state pension etc) then we'd have no problem at all :awesome:

For as much as everyone likes to blame the bankers are the scapegoats, what about the fact that there has been huge growth for years, plenty of people made lots of money with the FTSE growing in the past etc, dont the bankers get credit for that? Since they're getting all the blame too. In real terms, we're still better off than a decade ago, 20 years ago and so forth.
Reply 24
Rhys~
Which is in a large part the goverments fault. If labour had spent so much during the years of boom and actually had reserves the recession would be no where near as bad. Considering the public sector is employed by the goverment seems fair enough they have a pay cut and are brought down to the real world again....


Labour have an imaginary bottomless pit of money :awesome:
Reply 25
Err, have you not been reading the news?

We are borrowing £6000 a second. This is a great way to reduce borrowing without actually removing people from their posts.
Reply 26
They need to stop child trust fund and pregnancy grants rather than take even more money from hard working middle income people
Reply 27
ziggycj
They need to stop child trust fund and pregnancy grants rather than take even more money from hard working middle income people


If you watched the Conservative conference, the shadow Chancellor did say he would remove child trust funds but for 1/3 of the lowest earners.
(Which was another failed Labour policy)
Reply 28
sarforaz
If you watched the Conservative conference, the shadow Chancellor did say he would remove child trust funds but for 1/3 of the lowest earners.
(Which was another failed Labour policy)


They should stop trust funds for all. How is £750 when your 18 going to help you? If your parents earn under £18,000 you will get a full maintainance grant anyway (unlike middle earning families) and if your not going to uni you will either start claiming JSA or get a job.
Reply 29
ziggycj
They should stop trust funds for all. How is £750 when your 18 going to help you? If your parents earn under £18,000 you will get a full maintainance grant anyway (unlike middle earning families) and if your not going to uni you will either start claiming JSA or get a job.



You'd refuse £750 at age 18?

Wish I'd had that at age 18. Hell, if I was given £750 today I'd find some nice electronic equipment to spend it on. Netbook perhaps.
Rhys~
The public sector have many benifits other than pay, flexi hours etc and not the mention the pension which is effectivley a ponzi scheme which no company in the private sector would legally be alloed to do. Swings and roundabouts really


A lot of companies have flexi schemes where its possible you know. The pension is meant to be a good benefit but that way its going in 40 years those pensions will prob be worth a lot less than they are now

mart2306
So what have they been doing for the past few years of 'budget saving'?
There tends to be a limit on how much you can freeze hiring before everyone left gets sick of doing more work for the same pay.


No there is no doubt waste in Public sector, the Govt needs to start cutting on that waste- that will benefit everyone rather than just penalising the entire workforce.

Fusion
As always

http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13990191&CFID=83590804&CFTOKEN=98588610

As an example, Look at what BA staff are going through and then try telling me the public sector will ever face those sort of conditions.


There are no doubt a lot of high earning jobs that could be chopped i nthe public sector and I imagine these are the jobs that are bumping up the average earnings, but there are probably millions of low paid public sector workers who don't a huge deal comapred to private sector counterparts


Re you second point - funny, when the boom was going on I am pretty sure peopel owuld bemoan public sector workers across the board big pay rises, but it woudl be OK for BA as they are a private company generating their own income - well, it seems it cuts both ways eh?
Reply 31
mart2306
You'd refuse £750 at age 18?

Wish I'd had that at age 18. Hell, if I was given £750 today I'd find some nice electronic equipment to spend it on. Netbook perhaps.


Obivously i would want they money, but since its coming out of my parents taxes theres no point. I wouldnt get it anyway since my parents worked hard all there lives to insure the household income was above £18,000. This money is coming out of Middle earners income and going to people how parents might not even work. Its not like its going to help garauntee their kids have better future. Is electrical equipment for people whose parent dont bother to work something your taxes should have to pay for?
Reply 32
ziggycj
Obivously i would want they money, but since its coming out of my parents taxes theres no point. I wouldnt get it anyway since my parents worked hard all there lives to insure the household income was above £18,000. This money is coming out of Middle earners income and going to people how parents might not even work. Its not like its going to help garauntee their kids have better future. Is electrical equipment for people whose parent dont bother to work something your taxes should have to pay for?


What world do you live in? That is the status quo!
There are a handful of people who genuinely need work (disabled, mentally ill etc)
But then you have a lot of other people who just abuse the system because it is less effort and free money.
Reply 33
ziggycj
Obivously i would want they money, but since its coming out of my parents taxes theres no point. I wouldnt get it anyway since my parents worked hard all there lives to insure the household income was above £18,000. This money is coming out of Middle earners income and going to people how parents might not even work. Its not like its going to help garauntee their kids have better future. Is electrical equipment for people whose parent dont bother to work something your taxes should have to pay for?


Funny you should say that. My taxes do go on such things. Grants, student loans, university funding (which is heavily subsidised by taxpayer) and so on.
Tell me, can I have my portion of your student grant, student loan and funding for your university back please? I don't feel I should pay for you if you aren't willing to pay for others.
sarforaz

Bearing in mind that the top rate of tax is being increased to 50% so it's not like no one else is affected.


Yeah, and bear in mind the Tories have no plans to get rid of that tax band anytime soon.
I know it's from the Guardian, but it's a remarkably astute comment and says it better than I ever could:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/11/cameron-economy-tax-and-spend


Cameron's basic error will cost this country dearly

Just as Labour has got the economy fluttering to life, promised Tory cuts to the public sector would put it all at risk

o guardian.co.uk, Friday 11 September 2009 22.00 BST
o Article history

The all-conquering Conservatives are marching headlong into an elephant trap. Overconfident, they are starting to make mistakes. Too certain of victory, recklessly they dare to make enemies of the entire public sector. David Cameron transformed attitudes to his party overnight with that clever promise to stick to Labour spending plans: it blocked any Labour scaremongering about Tory cuts. It made Cameron look moderate, undogmatic and a friend of the public sector. He stole the trick from Labour, whose painful two-year freeze allayed old red fears. But now with Labour in directionless disarray, cocksure Cameron and Osborne ignore the perils of policies that lost them three elections. Their shrink-the-state glee is transparently ideological. Thatcher never promised cuts in advance.

The tax-and-spend battle began in earnest this week. But with every speech, Osborne and Cameron offer nastier medicine, sharper knives and worse to come: since when was inflicting pain a winning strategy? Through ceaseless repetition they and their press have persuaded voters that paying down national debt fast trumps all else. So far they have won the argument, mostly because Gordon Brown was denying that anything whatever need be done. Now that Alistair Darling has forced Brown to his senses, the debate has shifted to whose debt-reduction plans are best.

With encouraging indicators this week that Britain is starting to emerge from recession a little ahead of Treasury forecasts, early signs suggest public opinion is shifting to the view that Labour's fiscal stimulus worked. Recovery will be fragile all next year, with fear of a double dip. So where are the Tories? Thoroughly trounced, proven to be wrong when all through the crisis they alone in the world opposed all intervention, including the bailing-out of banks. They have virtually no reputable economic allies.

Economists Anatole Kaletsky of the Times and Martin Wolf of the Financial Times, both conservatives, this week walloped the Tory fixation with rapid and savage paying down of debt. Mervyn King, no Labour friend, has been the great promoter of quantitative easing. Robert Chote of the IFS warns Britain may already be planning to withdraw fiscal stimulus too soon. Every country, except Argentina, intends to keep spending through 2010, despite equally high debts. Nonetheless, at the spring election, just as recovery is fluttering to life, the Conservatives' one great priority will be to put it all at risk with immediate deep cuts, unprecedented anywhere else. Whatever blame Brown deserves for the bubble, is that a winning ticket for the Tories, really?

Even less popular will be their assault on the public sector. They are winning the argument now by talking of quangos, Whitehall bureaucrats and gold-plated public pensions. Everyone has a pet example of public jobsworths to cull. But vague assaults on the public sector can't take the Tories through an election. Once they get specific, they will be in trouble. For example, Tory sabres rattle at public-sector pensions, but a TUC report based on Office for National Statistics figures shows that taxpayers contribute 10 times more in pension tax relief to the richest 1% of earners than the state pays to all retired public servants. If Labour made proper use of this killer fact, they would promise instead to abolish all higher-rate income tax pension subsidies, bringing in £6bn – far more than public pensions cost.

The Institute of Directors and the Taxpayers' Alliance just produced their own juicy menu of cuts. While this is rightwing kite-flying, it offers a good frightener for what lies ahead. People may be stirred to anger by Tory tales of public waste, but voters will swing back pretty fast once real cuts are spelled out. On this £50bn death-list was Sure Start, Labour's best hope for rescuing young children. Away goes the educational maintenance allowance that has kept poor children in school beyond 16. Away go all grants from the Department of Communities and Local Government – mostly to charities. Freeze public pay for two years, freeze the state pension, end child benefit and no free travel for the old. Harmless-sounding cuts to non-frontline NHS staff mean fewer clerks to find hospital notes, make appointments and send samples to labs.

This useful report is a necessary reminder that few cuts are painless, most affect everyone, though the poor are hit hardest. Get out a political calculator and tot up how many tens of millions of voters will suddenly think that paying down debt fast is not the only priority after all. Ipsos Mori shows attitudes to the public sector are perverse: people criticise services in the abstract, but praise them mightily in their own community – where cuts will fall. I have been judging the Guardian Public Services Awards, looking at remarkable innovations and good ideas big and small by staff full of enthusiasm and energy. I can only think sadly that much of this would be gone when the Conservative axe falls. At election time, voters will contemplate this too – and daft public staff now telling pollsters they will vote Tory will come to their senses too.

The autumn's pre-budget report must be bravely specific about what cuts and tax rises Labour will use to reduce the debt. Only clarity will force the Tories to produce their own plans. Labour will need to make some cuts – but they can raise some taxes too. One per cent on National Insurance yields £10bn. Capital gains on private homes would raise £3bn. Abolishing tax relief on savings and investments, which goes mainly to the rich, brings £3bn.

This week figures showed that banks tripled the profit they made on mortgages in the last year: time to siphon some of that off. Meanwhile, a YouGov poll for Compass has found that 73% would support a new tax on bonuses above £10,000. Sixty-three per cent support the creation of a High Pay Commission. Labour has a chance to seize this public sentiment, since much public anger with politics springs from a sense that the parties are in cahoots with wealth. Cameron is making irreversible errors in his assault on the public sector. But Labour walks in an orchard of low-hanging fruit with its eyes tight shut, failing to take the chances on offer.
Reply 36
mart2306
Funny you should say that. My taxes do go on such things. Grants, student loans, university funding (which is heavily subsidised by taxpayer) and so on.
Tell me, can I have my portion of your student grant, student loan and funding for your university back please? I don't feel I should pay for you if you aren't willing to pay for others.


I dont mind paying taxes. But £750 isnt needed in these times. The goverment keeps introducing new ways to hand out extra money when we dont have any. If this went towards university students, its fine. But most people (not students) would probs waste the money since they dont exactly have anything useful (ie education), this moneys likely to go to gadgets and alcohol/drugs.

I think this money should go to families on a low income, but not people that have been on JSA for more than a year etc. If they stopped pregnancy grants (people survived without £190 before It was introduced in the middle of a credit crunch), they could use it toward education and the NHS etc. All I'm saying is these benefits can be put toward better causes that help everyone.

BTW- I didnt get a grant because my parents work and stayed married...
Reply 37
sarforaz
What world do you live in? That is the status quo!
There are a handful of people who genuinely need work (disabled, mentally ill etc)
But then you have a lot of other people who just abuse the system because it is less effort and free money.


Can you explain what your point is in more detail pls. I think the disabled should get more money, which could come from cutting JSA from people that have been on the dole for more than 2 years.
Reply 38
ziggycj
Can you explain what your point is in more detail pls. I think the disabled should get more money, which could come from cutting JSA from people that have been on the dole for more than 2 years.


Woops!
It was meant to read:

What world do you live in? That is the status quo!
There are a handful of people who genuinely need help (disabled, mentally ill etc)
But then you have a lot of other people who just abuse the system because it is less effort and free money.


Those who exaggerate their claims so they can get incapacity benefit, those who wont actually look or try to find work, those who will refuse to do any training so they can actually never get work, those who refuse to move from somewhere to another place where work might be available etc.

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