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Hash
So why spend 300k on a bribe that will go into tutors' pockets
It was my contention that you could bribe a tutor for maybe £20k on a personal level. That's a lot cheaper than £250k to a university. People say that tutors don't want money and that's true to some extent, but everyone has a price. A tutor might like a better car, or to have a smaller mortgage. Given that they only have to put up with the chap for 1-2 hours a week for 3 years, it's not that big a sacrifice. Who knows, he might even be moderately bright.
Oh, and once you've successfully bribed a tutor, you can get your money back by blackmailing him to let a few others in too (who pay you for the privilege).
Reply 42
Hash
Not only that, but their entire bribe would be wasted if the university came to know of it, and the student was then thrown out.

So why spend 300k on a bribe that will go into tutors' pockets and risk being thrown out, when you could spend a lower or equal amount and get an official place in an American university, where the money will be used for the good of the university.

Maybe the briber regards the advantages of a british university as greater than the disadvantages of the risk taken. I would never want to go to an American university - so if I were ever to bribe my way into a place (God forbid), I'd rather take a risk and go to a university I like than have an official place in a different country.
Reply 43
grumballcake
Oh, and once you've successfully bribed a tutor, you can get your money back by blackmailing him to let a few others in too (who pay you for the privilege).

Lol! Hahaha, yeah.. and you can say "You let me in with that money, so why not other people?" etc.
Reply 44
Adhsur
Maybe the briber regards the advantages of a british university as greater than the disadvantages of the risk taken. I would never want to go to an American university - so if I were ever to bribe my way into a place (God forbid), I'd rather take a risk and go to a university I like than have an official place in a different country.



OK maybe in your case you would gamble for a dodgy place at cambridge, than a 'proper' one at HYPS. But I suspect you would be in the minority?

Personally, I would feel more comfortable going to a great uni where making donations is an acceptable procedure, than having to look over my shoulder all the time in a uni where it was not allowed.
Reply 45
Phil23
oxford tutors are not after money! - they are after a good time, and that usually means smart people in the related field they can have a good time with (educational time) mind you:smile:. I really dont think they'd give someone like bush in cos they have the money! afterall, money is not an issue to a lot of tutors and as i said, its not money they are after, but stuff like an intellectual conversatoin etc - which bush and peops like him are unlikely to provide - lol - isn't that the purpose of the interviews? to filter out who they like and who they dont? afterall, everyone at the interviews are smart

pk



I was not referring to Oxford tutors as a whole. I was talking about the situation where you have two slimy tutors willing to give places away for money. I do realise that tutors are not in it for the money. Afterall, with their credentials they could quite easily get better paid jobs in other professions.
Hash
they could quite easily get better paid jobs in other professions.
I wouldn't count on it. The qualities to be a successful Oxbridge don don't necessarily match those to be successful in business.
Reply 47
grumballcake
I wouldn't count on it. The qualities to be a successful Oxbridge don don't necessarily match those to be successful in business.



On the whole, if someone with the intelligence and credentials of an Oxbridge don had gone into a career in the city or accountacy or dentistry or whatever, I am sure that 9 times out of 10 they would earn more than they do being a don. I believe it is a well recognised fact that academics don't earn as much as they could/should. In fact one of the reasons why top academics from the UK (and all over the world) flock to HYPS is because of the greater pay and perks (along with of course more funding for research).
grumballcake
I wouldn't count on it. The qualities to be a successful Oxbridge don don't necessarily match those to be successful in business.


There are professions other than business!
Reply 49
magicalsausage
There are professions other than business!


business sucks - its for losers who cant do real maths:biggrin: :cool:
One of the interesting facts about the real world, is that the people who got firsts at Oxbridge often end up working for those who didn't go to university at all.

I'd also point out that Bill Gates didn't finish his degree. :smile:

Some people who end up as dons are personable and capable people who could have succeeded at whatever they wanted to. However, many are not. They're well suited for academic life because it makes few demands on them and they can simply research the things that interest them, whether it has value to anyone else or not.
Reply 51
grumballcake
One of the interesting facts about the real world, is that the people who got firsts at Oxbridge often end up working for those who didn't go to university at all.

I'd also point out that Bill Gates didn't finish his degree. :smile:

Some people who end up as dons are personable and capable people who could have succeeded at whatever they wanted to. However, many are not. They're well suited for academic life because it makes few demands on them and they can simply research the things that interest them, whether it has value to anyone else or not.


Bill Gates didn't finish his degree because he saw opportunities he wanted to take at the time... and man did he take them well. It wasn't because he was not capable of doing so.

I must say that the Oxbridge 1st class degree holders working under people who didn't go to university is very much the exception and not the rule.

Although I can appreciate your point that being highly qualified is not necessarily a guarantee for success, I am still sure that the majority of Oxford academics could earn a lot more by following a professional career as opposed to teaching/lecturing/researching.

Anyway, my initial point was that I understand that tutors aren't doing their jobs just for the money!
Hash
I must say that the Oxbridge 1st class degree holders working under people who didn't go to university is very much the exception and not the rule.
I was certainly dramatising a point. Still, it's true for anyone working at Morrisons and for any of their professional advisors (bankers, lawyers, accountants).

Most CEOs of UK plcs did not get a first at Oxbridge. So, at the least, the guys with firsts are working for people who got worse degrees than they did and often from 'lesser' universities.
Reply 53
grumballcake
I was certainly dramatising a point. Still, it's true for anyone working at Morrisons and for any of their professional advisors (bankers, lawyers, accountants).

Most CEOs of UK plcs did not get a first at Oxbridge. So, at the least, the guys with firsts are working for people who got worse degrees than they did and often from 'lesser' universities.



To be honest, I am not/was not commenting on the careers of Oxford 1sts as compared to everyone else. I fully recognise that often they work under people who didn't go to uni/lesser uni etc, I never debated that.

Surely Oxford dons/academics don't have to be CEOs of large PLCs in order to earn more than they do? There are lots of other lower profile jobs that would pay them more than Oxford does.
Reply 54
Hash
To be honest, I am not/was not commenting on the careers of Oxford 1sts as compared to everyone else. I fully recognise that often they work under people who didn't go to uni/lesser uni etc, I never debated that.

Surely Oxford dons/academics don't have to be CEOs of large PLCs in order to earn more than they do? There are lots of other lower profile jobs that would pay them more than Oxford does.


like a plumber - they get paid enough cos the demand for them is high, aparently
Hash
Surely Oxford dons/academics don't have to be CEOs of large PLCs in order to earn more than they do?
What's the actual salary of an Oxford don? How does that cpompare with the national average? The one thing I'm unclear about: why should they get paid more? For being clever?
Reply 56
grumballcake
What's the actual salary of an Oxford don? How does that cpompare with the national average? The one thing I'm unclear about: why should they get paid more? For being clever?


The salary in question is not in comparison with other people, but with different jobs they could do themselves. I am saying that saying that academics/Oxford dons are not doing their job necessarily for the money. It would not have been difficult for them to have got a better paid job (than being an academic) elsewhere, e.g. banking/accounting/even plumbing.
I went and had a quick look and salaries are relatively low at maybe £50k, compared with a partner GP at maybe £90k+. One the other hand, a GP works 48 weeks a year, while a don teaches for just 24 weeks a year, which balances things up.

In any case, it's a free market - if people really want to be accountants no-one forces them to be dons. I think the current discontent is that dons used to be able to do pretty much what they liked, while now there's increasing interference and bureacracy in the job.
Reply 58
grumballcake

In any case, it's a free market - if people really want to be accountants no-one forces them to be dons



Haha finally. That was my original point. Academics choose to do their job because they like their subject, despite the relatively low pay.

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