Big anti-abortion rally in Spain

If it's a continuum then there may well be a point where you didn't think something was "a person worth caring about" but there could, equally, be someone that does. Again, who gets to decide either way?

Here we go again with another made up right. Bodily autonomy is trumped up to say the least. You have the right and the means at your disposal to not put a life in your body, once you have chosen to undergo the act which is intended to result in a child you accept the consequences. A womans right not to carry her own child will never out weigh the child's (that she put there) right to live. That childs bodily autonomy as you would call it would be totally destroyed. I would agree with you if pregnancy was a life time deal, but in reality it only truely affects your life and your ability to live it for about 3-5 months tops. When the choice is a slightly harder 3-5 months of life for a woman, or the life of the child she chose to put there, the decision is very easy. Please don't give me a hoorah about how it might kill someone, when it is the actual life of the mother I think abortion is a neccessity that is never the less tragic.

Perhaps if we get sick of our elderly relatives we can butcher them in their sleep? They aren't sentient and they do take up a lot of our time and money.

It has the potential to become one yes. However using your argument (playing devils advocate here) it could also be argued that if 2 people were to not use protection, it would result in a pregnancy (at some point) and therefore would eventually become a person. Using protection stops this potential, just the same as abortion does, just at a different stage of development.

Here we go again with another made up right. Bodily autonomy is trumped up to say the least. You have the right and the means at your disposal to not put a life in your body, once you have chosen to undergo the act which is intended to result in a child you accept the consequences. A womans right not to carry her own child will never out weigh the child's (that she put there) right to live. That childs bodily autonomy as you would call it would be totally destroyed. I would agree with you if pregnancy was a life time deal, but in reality it only truely affects your life and your ability to live it for about 3-5 months tops. When the choice is a slightly harder 3-5 months of life for a woman, or the life of the child she chose to put there, the decision is very easy. Please don't give me a hoorah about how it might kill someone, when it is the actual life of the mother I think abortion is a neccessity that is never the less tragic.

Spain has a lot of religious nutbags, news at 11.

I don't really think that's a problem. I might put in effort to prevent late term abortions at the point when I think it's worth doing (I would if they were legal), and someone else might do the same at a different point. I don't mind if people are trying to prevent early abortions by education and contraception (as long as they aren't using the law, as I would never do even with extremely late abortions), even if I think it's pointless for them to do so.

the only nutbags are the secular militants

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=764_1255811038

How does being secular make you a nutbag?

Personally I disagree with anyone trying to enforce their view on me, it should be enough that you have easy access to the information, not have someone standing outside trying to convince you their beliefs are the only one's you should have

We are going in circles here, and you keep changing your argument. Earlier you offered a precise point at which something becomes a person (when it has human DNA and sentience), then you realised that you could not identify such a point, so said "it's a continuum." Either way you're deciding whether a foetus should live or not by something that is purely subjective. I'm not arrogant enough to think that I have the authority to make such a choice.

Ending the pregnancy ends a life. A foetus, scientifically speaking, is alive. It doesn't suddenly become 'alive' when it pops out of a vagina. The point of having the foetus inside the mother is to protect it from the world while it's still vulnerable. There is no magic man that breathes 'life' and 'consciousness' into a human when it's born, or cut out of the womb.

Isn't that all secularists do? And what's wrong with Freedom of speech, it has become taboo to be socially conservative.

Isn't that all secularists do? And what's wrong with Freedom of speech, it has become taboo to be socially conservative.

Secularists do inforce a viewpoint, yes. "The view that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs"

To me this means that when in my own personal life I can practice my own belifs and morals. In your personal life you can practice your own religion and morals, as can everyone else. I don't tell you that you have to believe what I believe and thats the end of it, no if's and but's. Hence why in my opinion secularism is good, it makes us all equal.

As for freedom of speech, like I said as long as the information is available that should be enough, they are practicing their freedom of speech. If I was interested in pro-life groups or pro choice groups I can go to the library or search the internet amongst many things. I don't want or require someone screaming in my face or waving a big sign in front of me trying to convince me their way is right and its the only way.

Go and re watch the video and see what happened.

You're thinking too much from your own experience of life. You're already a grown adult. You're not relevant.

A foetus in a womb is waiting to be born. Thats it's destiny.

I have gone from one end of the spectrum to the other on this debate, I've condemned abortion as murder and thought of it as a choice reserved for every woman. I think that I am finally settling down on an opinion that I find acceptable.

Firstly, those that believe ending a pregnancy is preventing a life from coming into fruition, killing the foetus. I equally believe that by this logic that contraception is murder. Contraception prevents two clearly vital parts of life from ever combining and giving that particular potential foetus life. You prevent that particular child from ever being born into the world much in the same way that an abortion prevents a child from beginning thought and consciousness. For me, arguing that this is not the case is merely another debate about where life starts, by preventing it from starting are you killing it?