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Would you rather be born working class..

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blinkbelle

For example...? Have you considered the privileges a working class background provides? Or do they have no value as they are non-economic?

hit us with some of these examples. I'm intrigued as to the hidden advantages of having no money!

Reply 81

nexusofsanity

((The class system is kinda outdated, but I'll answer this anyway))

I'd definitely rather be born middle class, as am I now. I don't want to sounds selfish, but it's just quite nice having parents that always have a bit of money to spare for all these expensive things for me (i.e. private schooling, music tuition, birthdays etc.). I mean, it's just such a luxury to be able to ask your parents for a new bike and then not feel guilty about how much it's gonna cost them. Sure it makes me spoilt, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

A more interesting question to ask would have been "would you rather be born working class and work your way up to middle class; or be born middle class and descend into working class".

Reply 82

Locke54

OhNO!

Most people on this forum are middle-class.

Topics like this are always really shocking to me, the number of people in my age bracket who are so completely and utterly naive to the problems of the working class, and the poor in this country.

"Seriously speaking it's not hard.." no, it is hard, and the poorer you are the harder it is.

I come from a single parent working class family that lived on state benefits until I was 15, so don't give me the old the working class are downtrodden, it's hard for them, no one plays any attention nonsense. Furthermore my only parent died when I was 16, I'm self funding my way through University, I had to self teach myself A Levels after having dropped out of sixth form at the time and I had to work a ****** minimum wage job while self teaching myself A Levels just to have enough money to keep a roof over my head and myself fed. So really don't bring up this nonsense about how it's so hard for the working class.

The working class' biggest problem is that they subscribe too much to these excuses and don't do anything to improve their situation.

Reply 83

Tefhel

blinkbelle

For example...? Have you considered the privileges a working class background provides? Or do they have no value as they are non-economic?

Do you really not see how having more money affords one privileges? You can afford private schools, you can have lessons of every kind - music, riding etc, money isn't an issue so you can afford luxuries etc.

You don't get privileges for being working class, it's a sliding scale - upper class has more than upper middle class which has more than lower middle class which has more than working class which has more than lower class. That's just the way it goes, perhaps sad, but true.

Reply 84

Smack

Volunteer Team

Middle class all the way. I was born middle class but lived in a very working class area and as such I can clearly appreciate the advantages middle class children have over working class ones. Not saying you're doomed if you're working class, I know plenty of hard working students who were born into working class families and are now very successful, but you are simply less advantaged than middle class students who have educated parents that place a high priority on your education. And can buy you nice clothes so people don't bully you or make fun of you. And take you nice places in many different continents so you're well travelled. And have a nice house in a nice area so you aren't ashamed to take girls back.

Reply 85

Danny the Geezer

I hate the notion in this thread that money changes everything. My Dad knows several millionaires with various addictions and their money can't save them now, only the non-monetary help of the fellow people with the addictions can save them. So what is money when it's all said and done? Yeah it can ring you luxuries as a child that you'd appreciate but when you grow up to be an adult things such as the unconditional love of your parents, (if they struggle to provide for you but still try, does that mean they love you more or less than the parents that buy you riding lessons etc?) that you grow up to appreciate.

Reply 86

Max Hinks

blinkbelle

For example...? Have you considered the privileges a working class background provides? Or do they have no value as they are non-economic?

Not having to have a part time job, hence being able to spend more time working and revising. I have to have a part time job, or I wouldn't be able to buy any clothes/toiletries etc

Being able to get help from your parents with homework etc

Being able to get an increased cultural awareness from going abroad.

Being able to have a tutor.

Your parents experience of university.

Why, would being working class outweigh those values? If that was the case then everyone would be trying to move down the social mobility chain.

Granted I will appreciate it more, if I am able to be middle class when i'm older, but nothing will change how much easier it would have been had I not come from a very much "bottom of the barrel" working class background.

Reply 87

Danny the Geezer

Tefhel

Read my post above. Some people don't give a stuff about material things. Money doesn't guarentee happiness.

Reply 88

somethingbeautiful

jaydoh

It's not just about self satisfaction. It's about showing people that you can triumph over adversity. It's about showing people that class conventions can get shattered. It's about showing people that it doesn't matter if you get a better or worse start in life, it's what you acheive as an young person and adult that makes you in life.

As for being given the choice, I think I'd be with a majority in choosing class not existing at all, or being so overt in this country. Irrespective of whether you choose to be middle class or working class, I would always choose achieved status over ascribed status.

I don't see how it matters though. I don't care how people view me so I don't care how they view my success - whether that be through struggling for it or having it handed to me on a plate and I get no self satisfaction from working for it - it's just a means to an end. All I want is a comfortable living - I don't particularly mind how I get that as long as it isn't immoral. So I personally don't care and I don't care how others percieve my success therefore it doesn't matter - it's just the actual success itself that matters to me. I don't need to prove anything to anyone and I don't feel any pride in achieving wealth/success so I just can't engage in your question really.

Reply 89

blinkbelle

Tefhel

Do you really not see the privileges that are not related to financial situation?

py0alb

hit us with some of these examples. I'm intrigued as to the hidden advantages of having no money!

Your attitude is incredibly negative and snobbish towards those with less money than you.

But as requested I will give examples:

I have an excellent role model in my single parent, my mother. Alot of my middle class friends' mothers are not respected because of their role working at home and caring for them when growing up. My mum has really inspired me by raising me and my siblings, getting a degree, keeping a roof over our heads and making sacrifices.

I love some of the 'working class' traditions, for example working mens' clubs and the feeling of community you get between individuals who live in similar circumstances and don't blink an eyelid when they're required to help out one another during their time in need. I haven't seen this in middle class communities, however as I've said I am working class and as such wouldn't know whether such camaraderie exists for the middle classes.

I value money and physical things. As a child I was given a couple of presents for Xmas or my birthday, unlike my middle class counterparts who were given much more. I valued these toys much more and appreciated them as I understood the give and take, and sacrifices that were made in order for me to enjoy them.

Having less money makes you appreciate the lesser things in life, for example cooking meals from scratch, going on free days out, holidaying in Britain and not on expensive holidays overseas.

All these things I have benefitted from because of my working class roots, and I wouldn't change them for the world! Of course this isn't an exhaustive list, there are numerous other benefits I feel I have enjoyed because of my background, however I think my post is long enough already!

Reply 90

FootPrints

Born middle class, definitely.

Reply 91

blinkbelle

Max Hinks

But your background and experiences make you the person you are today. I am very happy with my life the way it is and how things have turned out, and any change to my background/roots would change that. I think having to work part time, being perhaps more independent, being culturally aware of Britain and its benefits, and experiencing things for yourself the first time around all make you a great person and able to deal with the future possibilities a great deal easier than others.

Reply 92

cpj1987

I did the first, and I'm relatively happy with that. I think it makes me appreciate everything far more, and I still have the same financial mindset - I'm not wasteful and I'm more comfortable saving and achieving than having excess cash.

Reply 93

Pt40

Class isn't about money.....you can't change your class imo, I am happy to be working class.

Reply 94

Max Hinks

blinkbelle

So I bring you back to my original point. You have no idea what it's like to live at the bottom of the barrel.

Reply 95

Erradhadh

jaydoh

Some people think that being working class has a stigma attatched to it. So what sets you all apart but money? Is money the determiner, pieces of paper essentially? :rolleyes:

It's about achieved status vs ascribed status, and at the end of the day I'd rather work for my lot, personally

Sorry, but someone who achieved a first and became a partner at Slaughter and May - working class or not - has achieved their status. This working class snobism from Brits is insufferable. :rolleyes:

Reply 96

py0alb

blinkbelle

Do you really not see the privileges that are not related to financial situation?

Your attitude is incredibly negative and snobbish towards those with less money than you.

But as requested I will give examples:

I have an excellent role model in my single parent, my mother. Alot of my middle class friends' mothers are not respected because of their role working at home and caring for them when growing up. My mum has really inspired me by raising me and my siblings, getting a degree, keeping a roof over our heads and making sacrifices.
!

That's cool about your mum, but you're generalising horribly that parents with a little more money can't also be just as inspirational. How do you think they got that money other than by working hard?

blinkbelle

I love some of the 'working class' traditions, for example working mens' clubs and the feeling of community you get between individuals who live in similar circumstances and don't blink an eyelid when they're required to help out one another during their time in need. I haven't seen this in middle class communities, however as I've said I am working class and as such wouldn't know whether such camaraderie exists for the middle classes.
!

I went to working mens clubs when I was an undergrad. As far as I am aware, they are not means tested. The cameraderie does exist, by the way.

blinkbelle

I value money and physical things. As a child I was given a couple of presents for Xmas or my birthday, unlike my middle class counterparts who were given much more. I valued these toys much more and appreciated them as I understood the give and take, and sacrifices that were made in order for me to enjoy them.
!

So do I. It's called not being a spoiled brat.

blinkbelle

Having less money makes you appreciate the lesser things in life, for example cooking meals from scratch, going on free days out, holidaying in Britain and not on expensive holidays overseas.
!

Again, so do most people. You have a strange idea of what being "middle class" consists of.

Reply 97

Erradhadh

jaydoh

Read my post above. Some people don't give a stuff about material things. Money doesn't guarentee happiness.

However - having the chance to learn to play the piano might make life just a little less gray.

Reply 98

Tefhel

blinkbelle

Do you really not see the privileges that are not related to financial situation?

Yes there are plenty of non-financial things that are good, but they are not related specifically to class, so you couldn't call them privileges.

Middle class people can have good role models, value money, show kinship etc. It is great that you have all these things! But they aren't related to your class but rather your own family situation instead.

jaydoh

Read my post above. Some people don't give a stuff about material things. Money doesn't guarentee happiness.

You're absolutely right, money doesn't guarantee happiness, I never said it did. But you have no more chance of being happy if you're poor either, if it comes down to it you could be poor and miserable, or comfortably off and miserable, I know which I'd rather be.