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Inside out - vet bills
"Inside Out" East Midlands (last night) here
Available on iplayer, from about 2mins to 11mins.
Discussing cost of vet bills.
Some of the prices they were quoted were high but, I wasnt keen on how much they were encouraging people to shop around. Sure, you can get second opinions, go to different practices. But I know when I have been on work exp it seems a shame the number of times when people hop between practices for the sake of a couple of pounds difference a spay and then onto the next practice cos their vaccinations are fractionally cheaper. There is no chance of the vet building up a relationship with the pet and owner at all.
Thoughts?
Available on iplayer, from about 2mins to 11mins.
Discussing cost of vet bills.
Some of the prices they were quoted were high but, I wasnt keen on how much they were encouraging people to shop around. Sure, you can get second opinions, go to different practices. But I know when I have been on work exp it seems a shame the number of times when people hop between practices for the sake of a couple of pounds difference a spay and then onto the next practice cos their vaccinations are fractionally cheaper. There is no chance of the vet building up a relationship with the pet and owner at all.
Thoughts?
Scroll to see replies
My hamster had a swollen paw and about a month ago it cost me 37 quid to get him sorted. I think he only cost me 8. My mate paid 100's when her cat got run over. I always use the same vet practice, it is round the corner from where I live. But I would not have a pet if I could not afford it and when we had a cat we had insurance.
I think part of the problem is people comparing the cost of their healthcare to the healthcare of their pets. There isn't a NHS for animals, and some of the procedures are expensive, just as the human equivalent would be if the patient was paying for private healthcare. The 'money-hungry' vets are the minority.
It annoyed me that they didn't go into much detail about the cat with the ulcers - they didn't mention the procedures, and the cat was kept in for 7 days over a bank holiday weekend. £1200 sounds like a lot of money, but if the RCVS looked into it, they can't of overcharged them that much.
This is why people should insure their pets. If my cat had no insurance, we would of spent about £4000 on him in the last 4 years, because he's accident prone.
I think it was a very biased report and they should of stressed how important it is to take your pets to the vet for vaccinations or emergency procedures, even in the current climate.
It annoyed me that they didn't go into much detail about the cat with the ulcers - they didn't mention the procedures, and the cat was kept in for 7 days over a bank holiday weekend. £1200 sounds like a lot of money, but if the RCVS looked into it, they can't of overcharged them that much.
This is why people should insure their pets. If my cat had no insurance, we would of spent about £4000 on him in the last 4 years, because he's accident prone.
I think it was a very biased report and they should of stressed how important it is to take your pets to the vet for vaccinations or emergency procedures, even in the current climate.
^yep. I think they really should have pushed insurance much much more. Rather than just encouraging people to shop around. How about suggesting they insure their pet for a small amount a month and then they dont need to worry about vet bills. Ok - they can still look at costing for routine vacs etc. But it would save the worry of a £1200 bill.
steph_v
I think part of the problem is people comparing the cost of their healthcare to the healthcare of their pets. There isn't a NHS for animals, and some of the procedures are expensive, just as the human equivalent would be if the patient was paying for private healthcare. The 'money-hungry' vets are the minority.
This. Nor do people take into account that the NHS pay their practitioners and all the bills for the hospitals/surgeries and shell out for all machinery etc. The only way a vet can obtain a salary/run his surgery is through adding a little to the cost of every procedure.
That's not money-grabbing; it's logical. How can the public expect vets to do a decent job if they're a) doing it for free and b) with no machinery/equipment? Answer; they can't. So why do they still complain about the cost of vet bills?
Poor education, that's why. Grr.
Yeh swapping around practices is a really silly idea. It might be fine for just a little thing, but if there's really something wrong do you want a different vet investigating and having no case history. You wouldnt want to see a different doctor every time you're sick so what makes people think its ok for animals. I think its best to shop around when you first get your pet, talk to neighbours, friends etc and pick the one you like and stick with it, its really important to trust your vet.
tigercallie
Yeh swapping around practices is a really silly idea. It might be fine for just a little thing, but if there's really something wrong do you want a different vet investigating and having no case history. You wouldnt want to see a different doctor every time you're sick so what makes people think its ok for animals. I think its best to shop around when you first get your pet, talk to neighbours, friends etc and pick the one you like and stick with it, its really important to trust your vet.
This too
Yet another programme putting people off using vets..pffff how stupid!! Animals don't have an NHS and vets have to make money somehow.
If you compare the cost just of a vets TIME to a doctors time, the difference is incredible-
Vet 10 minute consult £18
Doctor (private) 10 min consut £120
Need I say more? For goodness sake even mechanics get more for their labour than vets do and we have to work bloody harder to.
People have to make a decision-either have pets and pay for their healthcare (insured or not) or don't have pets, spend your money on cigarettes and booze, make yourself ill and then go and leech health care of the 'free nhs', because obvioulsy human healthcare is free in this country, most vet-haters never seem to have heard of tax
!
If my dog or cats were to have an accident there is no way we would be able to pay for the vets fees, but we pay to insure them instead. Animal owners need to have some sense!
Rant over...embryology here I come...
If you compare the cost just of a vets TIME to a doctors time, the difference is incredible-
Vet 10 minute consult £18
Doctor (private) 10 min consut £120
Need I say more? For goodness sake even mechanics get more for their labour than vets do and we have to work bloody harder to.
People have to make a decision-either have pets and pay for their healthcare (insured or not) or don't have pets, spend your money on cigarettes and booze, make yourself ill and then go and leech health care of the 'free nhs', because obvioulsy human healthcare is free in this country, most vet-haters never seem to have heard of tax
!If my dog or cats were to have an accident there is no way we would be able to pay for the vets fees, but we pay to insure them instead. Animal owners need to have some sense!
Rant over...embryology here I come...
tigercallie
Yeh swapping around practices is a really silly idea. It might be fine for just a little thing, but if there's really something wrong do you want a different vet investigating and having no case history. You wouldnt want to see a different doctor every time you're sick so what makes people think its ok for animals. I think its best to shop around when you first get your pet, talk to neighbours, friends etc and pick the one you like and stick with it, its really important to trust your vet.
not only that, its important for your pet to trust your vet. my dog is absoultely amazing at the vets but even he is visible more nervous when our usual vet isnt there.
I saw a young cat once that had been hit by a car and broken its leg in 7 places, it required months of treatment, surgery, skin grafts etc etc and the owners didnt have insurance cos it was quite a new cat they hadnt got round to it yet, ended up paying about £7000! but if you think of all the work that went into fixing that leg, its not that much really.
I think that if we had to pay for our medical treatment like they do in america people would be a lot more understanding cos people dont realise what the actual costs are to do these things.
I appreciate that there are no direct comparisons (i.e. my pet presented exactly the same symptoms and it cost me twice as much in one practice as it did in the other) in the following post, but I'm sure you can appreciate my point.
When my grandmother took her small dog to the vet because of excessive scratching, they charged her £50 to tell her it was fleas and give her a packet of Frontline.
When I took a chicken to a small animal vet with egg peritonitis (which I had diagnosed correctly before taking her in), they
a) said that they had never seen a chicken before (it didn't inspire confidence)
b) insisted on knocking her out to do a 'more thorough examination' before agreeing that I had been right in the first place.
The drugs that she needed cost £5, but the whole exercise cost £75 - for a chicken that cost £10 in the first place.
So why is it that when I went to a farm vet with my chicken (a different one), they were very knowledgeable, and I received a consultation, 3 courses of antibiotics (2 x Baytril, 1 x Tylan) and eventually euthanasia for a grand total of £40? Why is there such a price differential between the cost of a farm vet and a small animal vet? Surely the costs can't be that much different, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that small animal vets are profiteering when compared to farm vets.
When my grandmother took her small dog to the vet because of excessive scratching, they charged her £50 to tell her it was fleas and give her a packet of Frontline.
When I took a chicken to a small animal vet with egg peritonitis (which I had diagnosed correctly before taking her in), they
a) said that they had never seen a chicken before (it didn't inspire confidence)
b) insisted on knocking her out to do a 'more thorough examination' before agreeing that I had been right in the first place.
The drugs that she needed cost £5, but the whole exercise cost £75 - for a chicken that cost £10 in the first place.
So why is it that when I went to a farm vet with my chicken (a different one), they were very knowledgeable, and I received a consultation, 3 courses of antibiotics (2 x Baytril, 1 x Tylan) and eventually euthanasia for a grand total of £40? Why is there such a price differential between the cost of a farm vet and a small animal vet? Surely the costs can't be that much different, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that small animal vets are profiteering when compared to farm vets.
steph_v
The 'money-hungry' vets are the minority.
Huge student debt, many years spent in training rather than earning, long unsociable hours, expensive business starting and running costs, etc - yep being a vet is a right little earner.
We have the skills and the knowledge to apply ourselves to anything we like and excel. If I was after lots of money I wouldn't have become a vet, in fact it would be very low down my list of jobs.
steph_v
It annoyed me that they didn't go into much detail about the cat with the ulcers - they didn't mention the procedures, and the cat was kept in for 7 days over a bank holiday weekend. £1200 sounds like a lot of money, but if the RCVS looked into it, they can't of overcharged them that much.
In all honesty I know nothing about the case or the procedures involved but for a 7 day hospitalisation, diagnostics, consultation fees, pharmacology, surgery (if necessary), etc that doesn't sound unreasonable.
kookabura
^yep. I think they really should have pushed insurance much much more. Rather than just encouraging people to shop around. How about suggesting they insure their pet for a small amount a month and then they dont need to worry about vet bills. Ok - they can still look at costing for routine vacs etc. But it would save the worry of a £1200 bill.
Personally I don't understand it, the woman in question is a cat breeder, she should know better - she should have been insured.
My current vet is the one who was the only vet willing to operate on my bunny a few years ago; the rest said it was inoperable and they would have to put her down. She had a massive cyst on her cheek/eye and they said at the very least she would go blind, or probably die in the op. She lived 4 more happy years money doesn't come into it for me. xx
money doesn't come into it for me. xx
They also fail to mention why the costs may be varied between practices.
the mixo vaccine at £12 (without wanting to sound like a money grabbing vet!) sounds really too cheap to me. I'm guessing that practice quoted what they would charge for the actual vaccination, and failed to mention any consult charge that may go with it. Either they do the consult for free (very generous of them!) or they don't bother to examine animals when they come in for annual boosters (which I think is a bit neglectful).
For the cost of the castration there are so many factors which can affect price. E.g. are animals routinely sent home with buster collars, do they have a post-op check/stitches out appointment included in the price, what analgesics are they given pre- and post-surgery, do they use in-dwelling catheters or just a syringe for i.v anaesthetic induction, some surgeries may not use sterile gloves!, some may use disposable gowns/drapes Vs reusable ones, is the patient's anaesthesia monitored by a QVN or the receptionist/school work experience, the premedication, induction agent and maintenance anesthetic used can very massively in price - $22.30/hr for Sevoflurane Vs $3.50 for Isoflurane (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12910766) though fair enough sevo is very rarely used in 1st opinion practice.
All these small differences can result in a reasonable difference in cost and really there are always gonna be two opinions on whether the improved experience and comfort along with reduced risks of infection/anesthetic death is worth the price difference.
Without taking this into consideration, which the majority of the public viewing will fail to do, you do not realise that the most expensive practice for the customer/pet will also have the highest running costs for the practice owner. Therefore an 80% increase in the cost of a castration does not equal an 80% increase in profits for that vet. So an expensive vet is not necessarily a greedy vet, they may just be a vet who wants to provide the highest quality care for their patients. Whether all the costs are worth all the benefits is up for discussion and everyone will have their own point of view!
Wow, rant over. Sorry, but these shows annoy me quite a lot!
the mixo vaccine at £12 (without wanting to sound like a money grabbing vet!) sounds really too cheap to me. I'm guessing that practice quoted what they would charge for the actual vaccination, and failed to mention any consult charge that may go with it. Either they do the consult for free (very generous of them!) or they don't bother to examine animals when they come in for annual boosters (which I think is a bit neglectful).
For the cost of the castration there are so many factors which can affect price. E.g. are animals routinely sent home with buster collars, do they have a post-op check/stitches out appointment included in the price, what analgesics are they given pre- and post-surgery, do they use in-dwelling catheters or just a syringe for i.v anaesthetic induction, some surgeries may not use sterile gloves!, some may use disposable gowns/drapes Vs reusable ones, is the patient's anaesthesia monitored by a QVN or the receptionist/school work experience, the premedication, induction agent and maintenance anesthetic used can very massively in price - $22.30/hr for Sevoflurane Vs $3.50 for Isoflurane (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12910766) though fair enough sevo is very rarely used in 1st opinion practice.
All these small differences can result in a reasonable difference in cost and really there are always gonna be two opinions on whether the improved experience and comfort along with reduced risks of infection/anesthetic death is worth the price difference.
Without taking this into consideration, which the majority of the public viewing will fail to do, you do not realise that the most expensive practice for the customer/pet will also have the highest running costs for the practice owner. Therefore an 80% increase in the cost of a castration does not equal an 80% increase in profits for that vet. So an expensive vet is not necessarily a greedy vet, they may just be a vet who wants to provide the highest quality care for their patients. Whether all the costs are worth all the benefits is up for discussion and everyone will have their own point of view!
Wow, rant over. Sorry, but these shows annoy me quite a lot!
Origami Bullets
I appreciate that there are no direct comparisons (i.e. my pet presented exactly the same symptoms and it cost me twice as much in one practice as it did in the other) in the following post, but I'm sure you can appreciate my point.
When my grandmother took her small dog to the vet because of excessive scratching, they charged her £50 to tell her it was fleas and give her a packet of Frontline.
When I took a chicken to a small animal vet with egg peritonitis (which I had diagnosed correctly before taking her in), they
a) said that they had never seen a chicken before (it didn't inspire confidence)
b) insisted on knocking her out to do a 'more thorough examination' before agreeing that I had been right in the first place.
The drugs that she needed cost £5, but the whole exercise cost £75 - for a chicken that cost £10 in the first place.
So why is it that when I went to a farm vet with my chicken (a different one), they were very knowledgeable, and I received a consultation, 3 courses of antibiotics (2 x Baytril, 1 x Tylan) and eventually euthanasia for a grand total of £40? Why is there such a price differential between the cost of a farm vet and a small animal vet? Surely the costs can't be that much different, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that small animal vets are profiteering when compared to farm vets.
When my grandmother took her small dog to the vet because of excessive scratching, they charged her £50 to tell her it was fleas and give her a packet of Frontline.
When I took a chicken to a small animal vet with egg peritonitis (which I had diagnosed correctly before taking her in), they
a) said that they had never seen a chicken before (it didn't inspire confidence)
b) insisted on knocking her out to do a 'more thorough examination' before agreeing that I had been right in the first place.
The drugs that she needed cost £5, but the whole exercise cost £75 - for a chicken that cost £10 in the first place.
So why is it that when I went to a farm vet with my chicken (a different one), they were very knowledgeable, and I received a consultation, 3 courses of antibiotics (2 x Baytril, 1 x Tylan) and eventually euthanasia for a grand total of £40? Why is there such a price differential between the cost of a farm vet and a small animal vet? Surely the costs can't be that much different, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that small animal vets are profiteering when compared to farm vets.
its always costs a lot to have your animal anaesthetised, and a chicken would probably be difficult for a SA vet. the SA vet might have a higher standard consultation rate, they might have charged more because it took more time and it is something they dont normally do.
basically yu shouldnt have taken your chicken to a SA vet cos they dont treat chickens there.
Origami Bullets
When I took a chicken to a small animal vet with egg peritonitis (which I had diagnosed correctly before taking her in), they
a) said that they had never seen a chicken before (it didn't inspire confidence)
b) insisted on knocking her out to do a 'more thorough examination' before agreeing that I had been right in the first place.
The drugs that she needed cost £5, but the whole exercise cost £75 - for a chicken that cost £10 in the first place.
So why is it that when I went to a farm vet with my chicken (a different one), they were very knowledgeable, and I received a consultation, 3 courses of antibiotics (2 x Baytril, 1 x Tylan) and eventually euthanasia for a grand total of £40? Why is there such a price differential between the cost of a farm vet and a small animal vet? Surely the costs can't be that much different, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that small animal vets are profiteering when compared to farm vets.
a) said that they had never seen a chicken before (it didn't inspire confidence)
b) insisted on knocking her out to do a 'more thorough examination' before agreeing that I had been right in the first place.
The drugs that she needed cost £5, but the whole exercise cost £75 - for a chicken that cost £10 in the first place.
So why is it that when I went to a farm vet with my chicken (a different one), they were very knowledgeable, and I received a consultation, 3 courses of antibiotics (2 x Baytril, 1 x Tylan) and eventually euthanasia for a grand total of £40? Why is there such a price differential between the cost of a farm vet and a small animal vet? Surely the costs can't be that much different, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that small animal vets are profiteering when compared to farm vets.
1) I'm sorry, but with all due respect I doubt you diagnosed your chicken's egg peritonitis - rather you guessed one of several conditions which may have been affecting your bird. What tests did you do to rule out your differentials and come to a definitive diagnosis?
2)I'm sorry that some vets have not seen every condition which affect the numerous animals they try their best to treat. The cost was higher at the 1st vet as the vet was inexperienced with the species/condition and so felt s/he should do a thorough exam on your animal in order to treat it appropriately.
3) I think you have learned your lesson. Take your chickens to the farm vet from now on.
Origami Bullets
I appreciate that there are no direct comparisons (i.e. my pet presented exactly the same symptoms and it cost me twice as much in one practice as it did in the other) in the following post, but I'm sure you can appreciate my point.
At the end of the day neither you nor I know the full details of the case, what treatment was undertaken, what diagnostic tests were conducted, what sort of out of hours treatment was conducted, etc. You cannot compare one case to another (especially when you know absolutely nothing about it).
The Vet(s) in question were acquitted by the RCVS - that speaks volumes.
Origami Bullets
When my grandmother took her small dog to the vet because of excessive scratching, they charged her £50 to tell her it was fleas and give her a packet of Frontline.
Consultation fee = £20-30
Frontline = £10-15
£50 is not unreasonable. Most veterinary practices are not charities, they need to make some money in order to survive and supply you with a service.
voodooshaman
the mixo vaccine at £12 (without wanting to sound like a money grabbing vet!) sounds really too cheap to me. I'm guessing that practice quoted what they would charge for the actual vaccination, and failed to mention any consult charge that may go with it. Either they do the consult for free (very generous of them!) or they don't bother to examine animals when they come in for annual boosters (which I think is a bit neglectful).
Maybe it was a PDSA clinic?
It was a very rough and ready 'study' with a few angry owners thrown into the mix to sensationalise it - there is very little (if any) hard facts or evidence behind it.
Origami Bullets
I appreciate that there are no direct comparisons (i.e. my pet presented exactly the same symptoms and it cost me twice as much in one practice as it did in the other) in the following post, but I'm sure you can appreciate my point.
When my grandmother took her small dog to the vet because of excessive scratching, they charged her £50 to tell her it was fleas and give her a packet of Frontline.
When I took a chicken to a small animal vet with egg peritonitis (which I had diagnosed correctly before taking her in), they
a) said that they had never seen a chicken before (it didn't inspire confidence)
b) insisted on knocking her out to do a 'more thorough examination' before agreeing that I had been right in the first place.
The drugs that she needed cost £5, but the whole exercise cost £75 - for a chicken that cost £10 in the first place.
So why is it that when I went to a farm vet with my chicken (a different one), they were very knowledgeable, and I received a consultation, 3 courses of antibiotics (2 x Baytril, 1 x Tylan) and eventually euthanasia for a grand total of £40? Why is there such a price differential between the cost of a farm vet and a small animal vet? Surely the costs can't be that much different, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that small animal vets are profiteering when compared to farm vets.
When my grandmother took her small dog to the vet because of excessive scratching, they charged her £50 to tell her it was fleas and give her a packet of Frontline.
When I took a chicken to a small animal vet with egg peritonitis (which I had diagnosed correctly before taking her in), they
a) said that they had never seen a chicken before (it didn't inspire confidence)
b) insisted on knocking her out to do a 'more thorough examination' before agreeing that I had been right in the first place.
The drugs that she needed cost £5, but the whole exercise cost £75 - for a chicken that cost £10 in the first place.
So why is it that when I went to a farm vet with my chicken (a different one), they were very knowledgeable, and I received a consultation, 3 courses of antibiotics (2 x Baytril, 1 x Tylan) and eventually euthanasia for a grand total of £40? Why is there such a price differential between the cost of a farm vet and a small animal vet? Surely the costs can't be that much different, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that small animal vets are profiteering when compared to farm vets.
Yes, you're quite right. The vet of the first chicken should have just taken your word for what the chicken was suffering with, thrown out some random drugs in ignorance and not given a damn about whether or not the treatment they prescribed was appropiate for the condition, or whether it would exacerbate it/cause the chicken to deteriorate
Mate, if the vet had done that, and did it on a regular basis, they would have been sued by a client and probably faced stern words (if not worse) from our regulation body.
Insisting on further examination was not a case of profiteering but a way for that small animal vet, unsurprisingly inexperienced with chickens, to ensure that they were confident in their diagnosis and treatment. A good thing. For the chicken, for the vet - and even for you as a client, although you're obviously too blind to see that.
Besides that you simply cannot directly compare the two situations in price as two totally different procedures were undertaken (i.e. sedation - mighty expensive by the way, simply due to price of drugs and the amount of observation required - vs. a simple ten minute consult). The first vet also clearly spent a whole lot more time working on the chicken than the second vet. You have to pay for their time, you know.
Origami Bullets
I appreciate that there are no direct comparisons (i.e. my pet presented exactly the same symptoms and it cost me twice as much in one practice as it did in the other) in the following post, but I'm sure you can appreciate my point.
When my grandmother took her small dog to the vet because of excessive scratching, they charged her £50 to tell her it was fleas and give her a packet of Frontline.
When I took a chicken to a small animal vet with egg peritonitis (which I had diagnosed correctly before taking her in), they
a) said that they had never seen a chicken before (it didn't inspire confidence)
b) insisted on knocking her out to do a 'more thorough examination' before agreeing that I had been right in the first place.
The drugs that she needed cost £5, but the whole exercise cost £75 - for a chicken that cost £10 in the first place.
So why is it that when I went to a farm vet with my chicken (a different one), they were very knowledgeable, and I received a consultation, 3 courses of antibiotics (2 x Baytril, 1 x Tylan) and eventually euthanasia for a grand total of £40? Why is there such a price differential between the cost of a farm vet and a small animal vet? Surely the costs can't be that much different, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that small animal vets are profiteering when compared to farm vets.
When my grandmother took her small dog to the vet because of excessive scratching, they charged her £50 to tell her it was fleas and give her a packet of Frontline.
When I took a chicken to a small animal vet with egg peritonitis (which I had diagnosed correctly before taking her in), they
a) said that they had never seen a chicken before (it didn't inspire confidence)
b) insisted on knocking her out to do a 'more thorough examination' before agreeing that I had been right in the first place.
The drugs that she needed cost £5, but the whole exercise cost £75 - for a chicken that cost £10 in the first place.
So why is it that when I went to a farm vet with my chicken (a different one), they were very knowledgeable, and I received a consultation, 3 courses of antibiotics (2 x Baytril, 1 x Tylan) and eventually euthanasia for a grand total of £40? Why is there such a price differential between the cost of a farm vet and a small animal vet? Surely the costs can't be that much different, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that small animal vets are profiteering when compared to farm vets.
Probably because the second one you went to was a farm vet. I know vets are technically trained in everything, and should be able to deal with everything, but obviously after graduation there is still so much learning and specialisation to be done, im not surprised a small animal vet wasnt used to seeing chickens
tigercallie
Probably because the second one you went to was a farm vet. I know vets are technically trained in everything, and should be able to deal with everything, but obviously after graduation there is still so much learning and specialisation to be done, im not surprised a small animal vet wasnt used to seeing chickens
I second this. A friend had a domestic hedgehog and she had to travel 50 miles to see a vet who vaguely knew anything about it!
ch0c0h01ic
Maybe it was a PDSA clinic?
haha. I would hope even sensationalist journalists would do better than to compare private practice bills with those subsidised by a charity. I guess you can't put it past them though! If it makes a good story, who gives a damn about the facts...
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