Perhaps I may be of assistance?

I stumbled on this site earlier today - I wish I'd had something like this when I was choosing uni/career etc.

For what its worth, I have now been practising as a corporate litigator for about 7 or 8 years - first 6 years in the City and the last 18 months or so in Sydney.

If anyone has any questions about the joys of a training contract and what happens after that, then fire away - I shall try and dispense pearls of wisdom. At the risk of sounding like a snob, my experiences are very much from the "City" perspective - I'm not going to be able to advise about the respective merits of Wolverhampton or Huddersfield Poly, the best firms in Milton Keynes or what GCSEs you should take. I might (if you ask nicely) be able to offer some thoughts about choice of firms, what those firms look for in candidates and what its "really" like to be a lawyer!

Drop me a line!

Chalks.

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Reply 1

acey10

Wat do litigators do? the Litigation department get to go to court right? that's as much as I know

Reply 2

kidney thief

hello chalks,

which uni's are city lawyers generally from?

(and how much do you earn? :p:

)

Reply 3

foxo

Hi Chalks.

I'm hoping to study Scots Law at Edinburgh, Glasgow or Strathclyde. Say I get a decent degree (First or 2:1) and I've been in the legal profession for five or six years, but suddenly get sick of my wee country. How would I go about learning the Law for, say, Australia?

Reply 4

Onearmedbandit

acey10

Wat do litigators do? the Litigation department get to go to court right? that's as much as I know

Yeah that's pretty much the jist of it as far as I know...

Hello Chalks :smile:

Is competition quite fierce in practising overseas? Is it normally essential to have practised for a few years in the UK before thinking about moving abroad?

(sorry if these questions are a bit basic but I've never really looked into/thought about gonig abroad to work!)

Reply 5

foxo

Poor Chalks, what has he let himself in for? :wink:

Thanks for this by the way.

Reply 6

Onearmedbandit

Can't be any worse than what I let myself in for when I put those subjects in my sig and said I was willing to help :p:

.... but I keep it there. This site is supposed to help students so I think I should help when I can :smile:

Reply 7

cottonmouth

hey chalks, cheyaz.i wanna know which unis firms prefer you to come from. And what exactly is litigation.i know that sounds like a stupid question coming from a guy who really wants to do law; only i don't know very much about it.i was told by kings not to worry, but i do?do you recommend any books to read before i go?ive got a year to read up!

Reply 8

chalks

OK, here we go:

What is litigation? Essentially, legal proceedings before a Court or tribunal between parties seeking to enforce their legal or equitable rights. In other words, the resolution of a dispute between parties. Or if you want to simplify it any more - companies suing each other. All those cases you study (or will study) in tort, contract, equity, trusts etc have all come about by individuals or corporate entities being in a dispute with each other which has been ruled upon by the Court. Litigation lawyers represent those parties. The vast majority of the work is done behind the scenes rather than in Court. A normal piece of "big ticket" litigation run by a City litigation department might take 18 months to come to trial (and often longer) - the trial is the culmination of months of hard work collating evidence, interviewing witnesses and preparing the case. Many cases settle well before it is heard by the Court. That is especially the case in the UK where legal fees are so high.

Many City firms have "rebranded" their litigation departments as "dispute resolution" departments to reflect the fact that much of our work now involves the use of other procedures to resolve disagreements and disputes between our clients - those procedures are typically mediation, early neutral evaluation, arbitration etc.

A couple of people asked about which Uni. I am probably a little out of touch with this now. I didn't go to either Oxford or Cambridge but they are still regarded as being the best, and rightly so. The teaching at those two institutions is unparalleled. A degree from either of those will be regarded extremely highly by employers. On the next rung down are, I guess, the london Unis and the more traditional redbricks. Outside that, you're going to struggle to get a TC at the top firms. At the very least you'll need some pretty interesting stuff on the CV to stop the application going straight in the bin. Anything other than a 2:1 and you're history but you know that.

Cottonmouth asked about what books to read - don't worry yourself about that at this stage. I would, however, recommend that you start getting to grips with the business press. If you intend being a commercial or "City" lawyer then you will need to understand how the business world works. Start to read the decent broadsheets (and that means the business pages not just the sport!).

As for working overseas, that very much depends on your area of speciality. You are likely to be limited to working in those jurisdictions which have a similar legal system and laws to England & Wales - Australia is the best example. A few years post qual experience is normal. English lawyers are well thought of overseas - generally we benefit from good teaching, good training and the legal work in the City is arguably the best in the world. To answer someone's question - experience in Scots law will not be as well regarded as English law experience as the systems and laws are markedly different. Its not impossible, but it will be difficult.

Finally, someone asked about how much we get paid. I've seen some hilarious stuff posted on this site about how much solicitors and barristers earn, especially about the latter. The rollonfriday website has some good info about payscales for the main firms. Lets just say we don't go hungry.

Hope that helps.

Keep the questions coming - please note, however, that the time difference means that my answers are always going to be a bit late. The more specific the question the better.

Chalks.

Reply 9

Onearmedbandit

Well my bosses get paid quite nicely and we're only a small firm :smile:

Though it's nothing like £100,000 a year, the senior partner is getting there.

But I have no idea in the City.

Reply 10

chalks

Trainees in City looking at 25 to 28K, NQs 45-50K, 3yrs PQE around 60-80K. Us firms higher.

"Well my bosses get paid quite nicely and we're only a small firm" - I assume you're not practising yet though?

Reply 11

UCL_Law

I'm applying for TC's atm, and finding it so hard to choose firms. I mean, I have my own criteria, but you can't go by their recruitment brochures at all, and don't get me started on some of the questions on the applications! My is it going to be a fun month ahead!

Reply 12

chalks

You have my sympathies. It is extremely difficult and increasingly competitive. With respect, it isn't simply a matter of you choosing firms. If you want a TC, you may have to compromise and go with a firm that wouldn't necessarily have been your number 1 firm.

My tip when completing the application forms - think very carefully about what you think law firms are looking for in their candidates. What traits and characteristics make a good lawyer? Once you've identified those, explain how you satisfy and fulfil those criteria.

Reply 13

ForeverDecember

Here's a simple one. Which university did you go to?

Reply 14

UCL_Law

Oh gosh, I know I'm not in a position to pick and choose, I'll accept anything that comes my way! You just have to come up with some check list so when they ask you at interview where else you've applied, you can say, well I want a mid sized firm, with a good TMT dept, overseas seats etc so it looks like you've some consistency and not applied everywhere.

I'm fortunate in that I have a relative who's a partner in a top London firm and used to be in recruitment, I think they'll all be off for a quick glance from them before I actually send them off!

Reply 15

chalks

ForeverDec: Newcastle

UCL - sounds like you know what you're after. I'd make the most of that relative of yours. Speak to them and ask them what their firm wanted to see in the application forms. Trust me - we see some absolute shockers. See if they can give you a mock interview etc.

Reply 16

UCL_Law

Yeah, it's just that I'm only 20 and not entirely sure I want to be doing this just yet! I suppose if I get lucky and my sheer luck get offered a TC this Sept, I'll ask to defer it. It's just all so daunting, you get your 2nd year results and suddenly you're thrown into grad recruitment!

'twas ever thus.

Is that some weird Oz speak?!

Reply 19

Khalsa1846

Chalks, I've changed from completing a Law LLB degree at SOAS (School of Oriental & African Studies, Uni of London) to completing a completely different degree...BSc Investment & Financial Risk Management at Cass Business School (part of the less prestiguous City University). I still have a strong loyalty to Law and was thinking whether it was possible for me to make it to the top firms if i graduated with a 2.1 and had some legal experience (Clifford Chance LLP, next week im off to Shanghai to work for Long An law firm for a month). Did well in my a-levels (AAB/a - august may see this change to AAA/ac).
What are my chances (i know i have to do the CPE now!).
Mandeep