[oblomovski]

It's a funny business, this references lark.

When I (unsuccessfully) applied for an MA last year, I asked an UG tutor for a reference back in late November/early Dec, received confirmation he'd oblige a few days later...actually received the thing, after plenty of chasing (embarrassing when it is your ex-tutor), in late February! The plan had been to get my application in by mid January.

The same referee did agree to provide a further reference this year however, so I duly asked again a couple of weeks ago: no response...which made me think
ugh or, in smiley terms, probably ...here we go again.

My girlfriend, who is applying for different MAs, has had even worse luck...a series of (fairly blunt) refusals from ex-tutors.

So just wanted to ask you all your views and advice on the referencing process.

How long should students expect to wait?

Are certain times of year less reasonable than others?

Is obligation to provide them only 'implied' or a defined part of the tutor's job description?

Is the content, and therefore choice, of reference actually more important than the general 'seal of approval' that any reference from the same institution would carry?

Also, are references really a fair and accurate basis on which to judge an application, assuming some level of 'doctoring' can be involved and given that the obtaining of the references is often down to the organisation and attitude of persons outside of the applicant's influence?

[tigermoth99]

How long should students expect to wait?

Depends on the referee and when you've asked. Some times, such as the beginning of the semester, are busier than others and you may end up waiting a month or more.

Some referees might get it done quickly, others might take a couple of months.
Are certain times of year less reasonable than others?

Before holidays, reading week and beginning of semesters.

Is obligation to provide them only 'implied' or a defined part of the tutor's job description?

Implied. They're not obliged to provide a reference (unless it's part of their duties, of course)

Is the content, and therefore choice, of reference actually more important than the general 'seal of approval' that any reference from the same institution would carry?

Content, I would have thought

Also, are references really a fair and accurate basis on which to judge an application, assuming some level of 'doctoring' can be involved and given that the obtaining of the references is often down to the organisation and attitude of persons outside of the applicant's influence?

Portfolios of critical and creative writing are more accurate for courses such as Creative Writing to determine an applicant's suitability than references.

References can only determine so much. Examples which demonstrate aptitude for a subject have more impact, imo.

[evantej]

Well I formally asked for a reference on the 11/10, and provided all the information they required (CV and a stupid self-assessment thing, and also gave details of the course I was intending on applying for, explaining why I wanted this application done quickly as possible). Anyway, I contacted them again a few days ago (02/11) and asked how they were getting along, and one of them said: “I had a look over the guidelines for the course, and it looks like we do not have to write a reference at the moment, they will contact us”, which basically means they have not even begun to think about writing it.

Personally, yes I believe they are obliged to write them considering postgraduate applications ask for them. Academia perpetuates its own importance, and if lecturers do not want to be burdened then they should stop asking for references – it really is that simple. However, I understand and completely sympathise with people who have to write references for students who were utter wastes of space, and that is what pisses me off. Why is my request being delayed when I gave them plenty of notice (even discussed it informally, warning them that I would ask for a reference soon), when I am one of the best students, and when I know they are writing references for mediocre waste of spaces, who never contribute anything in class?

What also pisses me off is the lack of universality in the application process. I want my referees to give me a written reference so I can upload that when I apply; I do not care whether I can read it or not, but I care about my privacy. If I want to let them know where I am applying then I will tell them. What I dislike is being burdened with outdated garbage like paper applications, and printing off forms for my references to fill in by hand then send them off in sealed and stamped envelopes. These people take themselves far too seriously.

That was grade A angst right there, folks.

[tayesniggi]

One of my referees took a really long time as well. When I saw him on my way to class once, I asked him how far along is he, he even forgot what I'm talking about. However, when I finished my online application for Cambridge, the self-service page said my docs should be there by Nov 16. That kind of made me worry a lil bit so I went to see the prof during his official hours on monday and explained the situation humbly (knowing he had an important event coming up yesterday) and he said he understands and will do it by thursday if that's ok, I agreed (what else lol), but yesterday I got an email from him saying he submitted others online and for Cambridge I should pick it from the secretary. Before this for like a month he didn't write it. So I think if you don't give them a (reasonable) time limit they will just keep postponing it. At least it worked for me

[hobnob]

Looks like I was extremely lucky with my referees, then. The longest I ever had to wait for a reference was a month (and that was from somebody who I knew for a fact was incredibly busy at the time).

[tigermoth99]

I've had mixed experiences with references. When I applied to Kingston Uni last year, everything was okay. I spoke to a couple of lecturers and asked if they would provide me with a reference. Got the offer (couldn't take it up because of funding issues I had then)

Everything was quick and quite simple. Whole process took less than a month.

Applying to RHUL was a bit of a pain partly because of the EMBARK system that my referees, who agreed to provide references after a lot of chasing up and faffing around, couldn't understand and didn't want to engage with.

The course director also wanted the references quickly to formalise the offer he had given me at interview, adding to the chaos.

In the end, I managed to get them to e-mail their references directly to him, bypassing the online system. Process took several weeks and was much more time consuming than the first.