I've just read the thread on PPRuNE relating to this news story and believe it or not I actually agree with the bar/ restaurant.
Similar rules exist in Messes/ Wardrooms across the board so it wasn't a new concept to them. By the sounds of the article the guys had already been in the bar for several hours prior to being asked to leave and I get the impression that a bit of "don't you know who I am?" was going on as well.
What are everyone's thoughts towards this article? Should the soldiers be angry at being asked to leave; or should the restaurant have bent it's rules to allow them to remain in CS95 whilst the rest of the public have to wear smart casual?
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
Hmm it's an interesting one.
On one side, yes it is company policy that people have to be dressed accordingly. On the other side, so long as the drinking was tame and contolled, exceptions could have been made. In the US, their soldiers would have been treated like royalty upon their return, so why can't the same be true for ours.
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
this is disgraceful, soldiers should be able to wear their uniform and be proud of the fact and be treated with due respect by the public, they should not have been asked to leave, unless they were fighting or making trouble, which I doubt they were
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
Whatever happens, this will backfire for the bar.
Although no publicity is bad publicity.....?
I dunno. To me a dress code is a dress code, although you'd think perhaps they could bend the rules for a group of soldiers returning from fighting a war on our behalf - even though to some the reasons aren't obvious at first glance.
I love our armed forces, but if I owned bar I'd be in half-mind as to whether to let them in at ALL (we know what squaddies are like on the lash! ) or whether to invite them all in and drinks all round.
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
From the PPRuNe thread:
In an official statement, a spokesman for Tiger Tiger denied that soldiers had been asked to leave
He said: 'No soldiers were forced to change clothes at Tiger Tiger Croydon. There were a number of soldiers in fatigues in the bar on Thursday.
'As with any customer, they were told that we have an evening dress code and asked to change if possible. Some of the soldiers were unable to get changed but, because of the significance of the event that day, an exception was made and they were permitted to stay.
'It was an important day for the regiment and town which is why an exception was made.'
I quite agree that it's their business and they're allowed any dress code they like. If I don't match it in jeans & a t-shirt, then I don't see why an exception should have to be made for uniform. I'm sure if they had been asked to leave (which, by the sounds of things, they weren't) then they could have found plenty of other places to drink.
No-one's picked up on the fact that it's technically against the rules to be drinking in uniform in a bar anyway.
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
I don't support the war in Afghanistan or Iraq. However, because this unit has lost 13 men it makes it not really about politics, but more that they have been through a traumatic event and perhaps could have been shown some compassion just this once. Having said that, lots of people go though traumatic events and that doesn't give justification to be let into bars when dressed inappropriately. i.e. "I just had a car crash mate you've got to let me in" - it sounds ridiculous.
Even so I don't think it's a big deal, a bar is a private company and they can do what they like for the interests of the business so there definitely should not be any rules made about letting solders in uniforms to get some kind of special rights.
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
I agree with the bar. I dont agree that soldiers should get any special treatment. it's their chosen profession just like anyone elses. i think it's more shocking that people were shocked.
i hate all this "heroes" attitude. they chose the job, they do the job -just like anyone else. i work in tesco and do my job. am i a hero?
if i wanted to risk my life i would join the army, but i dont... so i dont. simple.
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
Originally Posted by this
i work in tesco and do my job. am i a hero?
It's not quite as simple as you make out. You can be in the armed forces and get through your career without being any sort of hero. I bimble around in jets every day at work, and I'm far from any sort of hero.
However, if a guy in Afghanistan crawls through a minefield after being shot and still manages to pull back 2 wounded colleagues despite there being 2 dozen enemies shooting at him, then that's pretty heroic. Disappointingly for those out there, things like that happen quite a lot in Afghanistan.
I don't think you can really complain if someone who risked their life massively above and beyond the requirements of his job to save his mates gets a bit of a pat on the back and called a hero. Frankly, I'd like as many friends like that as possible!
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
Storemen, they're heroes. All day sweating their obvious off in an ISO container.
As for positive discrimination, if you're a female in the forces you can now get out of doing night duties if you're scared of the dark. ISYN. Finally, women getting the recognition they deserve
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
Originally Posted by Elipsis
What kind of a bar turns away Squadys anyway? It's like telling a blank check to piss off.
There are plenty of people who find the idea of a bunch of blokes in combat uniform quite intimidating, so I imagine you might lose a lot of your customers if you let a mass of 30 soldiers in.
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
Originally Posted by this
i hate all this "heroes" attitude. they chose the job, they do the job -just like anyone else. i work in tesco and do my job. am i a hero?
No. You are not a hero, but to you Tescos is just a job. To the soldiers in Afghanistan it is more than a job, it is their life and one that they are putting on the line to fight for the interests of British national security and the British people. Have some respect please.
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
Originally Posted by Q_M
I didnt even know that. Is that just for C95s or any of the uniforms? I've seen loads of people out drinking in uniform from all three services?
Someone on PPRuNe very kindly quoted the rule, presumably from QRs:
Originally Posted by QRs
0113.
Occasion on which uniform is NOT to be worn.
b. Visits to licensed premises (including when not consuming alcohol), except when specifically approved by the Chain of Command.
The "except" bit there gives you an idea of when this can be broken, but it's suitably vague. Does asking my boss count? Or do I need the Stn Cdr's approval? Or higher? Or just my Flt Cdr?
The only time I've seen this done was when our Stn Cdr told us we could sit around and have a beer with some appreciative locals after a freedom parade. The only time I've broken the rule tends to be at things like weddings, where a half dozen guys in No 1s doesn't cause much offence.
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
Originally Posted by Wzz
Someone on PPRuNe very kindly quoted the rule, presumably from QRs:
The "except" bit there gives you an idea of when this can be broken, but it's suitably vague. Does asking my boss count? Or do I need the Stn Cdr's approval? Or higher? Or just my Flt Cdr?
The only time I've seen this done was when our Stn Cdr told us we could sit around and have a beer with some appreciative locals after a freedom parade.
Licensed premises could be anything though couldnt it? A petrol station?
Re: How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
Originally Posted by Q_M
Licensed premises could be anything though couldnt it? A petrol station?
Christ glad I found this out actually.
Calm your passions Q_M, when are you actually going to be outside the wire drinking anyway? Remembrance Sunday maybe? Wedding? 99% of the time you'll have permission from the boss or the boss will be there with you!
Armed forces discussion.
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How long until positive discrimination kicks in?
) or whether to invite them all in and drinks all round.
