I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
Debate issues that have a social and cultural impact, including but not limited to issues such as racism, teenage pregnancies, the social impact of religion, and the state of the education system
I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
I totally up for remembering the men and women who died in the 2 world wars, there was a real threat and they had something to defend, they were normal men and women who fought to preserve our freedoms and indeed the fact that I can freely write this on a message board today is because of them, however...
But there is no way I will ever wear a poppy.
The british legion is a charity I have no interest whatsoever in supporting, in fact I actively disagree with pretty much everything they stand for. What is this belief that people in the army are heroes? They are no heroes, they chose a job where they were trained to kill and then they would be sent to other countries to kill people. This is not the behaviour of a hero. They do not deserve massive pensions, they don't deserve free private health insurance, they knew what they were getting into. They do not deserve marches when they come home, they don't deserve any better funeral than a doctor or a nurse or a fireman. These people have done nothing to benefit the country, the army they fight for takes money from people who really need it and puts it into killing people. There have been no wars we have won where the number of deaths justifies the outcome.
Ok so the families are the ones who need the help most, this is true, but lets be honest if you brought up your son to think its OK to kill people (for any reason) then you must have been a) pretty lousy parent or b) supporting of the armed services, in which case don't complain, and if you married someone who you know is in the army you really can't complain either. You signed up for this.
Army parades in the street glorifying the work of servicemen and women are a disgrace, odd how the other people who spend their lives helping the country don't ask for this much attention, - oh yeah no one needs convincing that a nurse (insert other useful job) actually they did something good with their lives.
I know this is a fairly unpopular stance and I really don't mean to offend anyone but this is actually something I feel very strongly about if you sign up for the army you know the risks, deal with them.
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
I pretty much agree with you. I have immense respect for the people that fought in the Second World War and to some extent the First, but I have to be honest and say that I have a pretty dim opinion of anyone who served/is serving in Iraq or Afghanistan. It's not defending the UK, it's not defending democracy or freedom, it's propping up Islamic fundamentalism and imperialism at the cost of massive innocent civilian casualties. There's nothing respectable about that in my opinion, and the fact that every soldier fighting over there made a conscious, free decision to do so doesn't really help.
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
I agree with your stance on war but I will always wear a poppy. They are people as well. You cannot say "sod you, you chose this" because it's spine-chillingly ignorant. I will never join the armed forces nor support an illegal war such as the one going on at the moment, but I recognise the efforts of the individual workers. Not everyone that dies at war is a soldier. I need FiveFiveSix or someone to help me explain this better.
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
Originally Posted by LostRiot
The british legion is a charity I have no interest whatsoever in supporting, in fact I actively disagree with pretty much everything they stand for. What is this belief that people in the army are heroes? They are no heroes, they chose a job where they were trained to kill and then they would be sent to other countries to kill people. This is not the behaviour of a hero.
I think it most certainly is.
They do not deserve massive pensions, they don't deserve free private health insurance, they knew what they were getting into.
Well, no, they don't - soldiers cannot resign if a change in conditions upsets them, they cannot question their orders, they cannot strike for better conditions - indeed, the lack the most fundamental avenues of insuring employment rights as they are effectively slaves of the state for the duration of their service. They rely on the gratitude and decency of the state, and hence the public, for everything they have. They don't know whether they'll be fighting fascists in Europe or Islamists in the Near East.
These people have done nothing to benefit the country, the army they fight for takes money from people who really need it and puts it into killing people. There have been no wars we have won where the number of deaths justifies the outcome.
Would you have sat idly by whilst every Jew, Gypsy, homosexual, communist and disabled person in Europe were being systematically exterminated?
Ok so the families are the ones who need the help most, this is true, but lets be honest if you brought up your son to think its OK to kill people (for any reason) then you must have been a) pretty lousy parent
On the contrary, if you bring them up to believe that nothing is worth fighting and killing for, then you're a coward.
Army parades in the street glorifying the work of servicemen and women are a disgrace
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
Families can't choose what their children become. Sure, there are people on here who are only doing medicine/law just because their parents told them to, but that's pretty sad. People who join the army make the decision for themselves, and their families have to deal with it - whatever the results. Giving a little money to help isn't a bad thing to do.
And the poppy does at least remind people about the pointlessness and horrors of war: if anything, this will serve to help us to avoid war in the future.
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
I totally disagree with you and frankly hate your whole attitude towards what the poppies stand for.
Soldiers who are sent abroad, with the risk of losing their life for the cause, does make them heroes. And the fact they know the risks makes them brave if you ask me.
The poppy is a symbol of all those who've laid down their lives for this country - and whether you agree with the war or not - that deserves a whole lot of respect. I think your post just screams ignorance: do you know anyone in the Forces? Spoken to them? Given them the time of day?
Tomorrow I'll be at the Rememberance service like the majority of the population who are proud of our service men and women. And yes, I'll be wearing my poppy.
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
Originally Posted by LostRiot
I totally up for remembering the men and women who died in the 2 world wars, there was a real threat and they had something to defend, they were normal men and women who fought to preserve our freedoms and indeed the fact that I can freely write this on a message board today is because of them, however...
But there is no way I will ever wear a poppy.
The british legion is a charity I have no interest whatsoever in supporting, in fact I actively disagree with pretty much everything they stand for. What is this belief that people in the army are heroes? They are no heroes, they chose a job where they were trained to kill and then they would be sent to other countries to kill people. This is not the behaviour of a hero. They do not deserve massive pensions, they don't deserve free private health insurance, they knew what they were getting into. They do not deserve marches when they come home, they don't deserve any better funeral than a doctor or a nurse or a fireman. These people have done nothing to benefit the country, the army they fight for takes money from people who really need it and puts it into killing people. There have been no wars we have won where the number of deaths justifies the outcome.
Ok so the families are the ones who need the help most, this is true, but lets be honest if you brought up your son to think its OK to kill people (for any reason) then you must have been a) pretty lousy parent or b) supporting of the armed services, in which case don't complain, and if you married someone who you know is in the army you really can't complain either. You signed up for this.
Army parades in the street glorifying the work of servicemen and women are a disgrace, odd how the other people who spend their lives helping the country don't ask for this much attention, - oh yeah no one needs convincing that a nurse (insert other useful job) actually they did something good with their lives.
I know this is a fairly unpopular stance and I really don't mean to offend anyone but this is actually something I feel very strongly about if you sign up for the army you know the risks, deal with them.
Wondering peoples opinions.
I'd love to see you go and repeat all that to an oldboy with his hat and medals on quietly selling poppies at the station rather than on the cosy anominity of a lefty student forum.
Or if you havn't the ******** to do that why don't you go and look like a real **** and wear a white poppy?
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
Originally Posted by L i b
On the contrary, if you bring them up to believe that nothing is worth fighting and killing for, then you're a coward.
Interesting statement. I hear it quite a bit but I can't form an opinion. I will do everything in my power to avoid having to kill. I find killing cowardly, myself. War and capital punishment are crimes against humanity. But then again there are things very close to me. Would I kill for them? I honestly can't say.
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
Every country needs an army. The soldiers in it have chosen to dedicate and risk their lives to fight for their country, no matter what that may mean in the future. They're heroes and you're a disgrace OP.
Also public opinion on the Afghanistan and Iraq wars has massively shifted with the benefit of hindsight. A lot more people were all for it, and now it's been going on a bit longer than expected everyone's getting bored of it. The soldiers do not have the ability to use hindsight to leave the army, they are stuck in war.
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
Originally Posted by Time Tourist
I'd love to see you go and repeat all that to an oldboy with his hat and medals on quietly selling poppies at the station rather than on the cosy anominity of a lefty student forum.
Or if you havn't the ******** to do that why don't you go and look like a real **** and wear a white poppy?
Well actually I have nothing against "oldboy with his hat and medals on quietly selling poppies at the station" if all the british legion did was help WW2 vets I would have no problem and when I was younger that is what I was lead to believe and I agreed with poppy day. But actually they don't spend their money on that, they spend it on helping "our boys in iraq" and I don't want to give my money to help them.
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
I think it's somewhat biased when we wear poppies for all the British soldiers who died, but do nothing for all those non-British people they killed. It seems that British blood is somehow considered more valuable.
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
Originally Posted by rockrunride
Interesting statement. I hear it quite a bit but I can't form an opinion. I will do everything in my power to avoid having to kill. I find killing cowardly, myself. War and capital punishment are crimes against humanity. But then again there are things very close to me. Would I kill for them? I honestly can't say.
If not, have you not completely alienated your humanity and reduced yourself simply to a potential slave to anyone who comes along?
Originally Posted by dental
Why should he f off?
He's entitled to an opinion.
And he's entitled to tell him to **** off for it. Shockingly your little venture into liberalism works both ways.
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
I'm not exactly fan of the wars in Afghanistan/Iraq, but it's important to remember that, should any country threaten Britain directly, these are the people who would defend it. As Orwell said, 'People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.'
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
Originally Posted by numb3rb0y
I pretty much agree with you. I have immense respect for the people that fought in the Second World War and to some extent the First, but I have to be honest and say that I have a pretty dim opinion of anyone who served/is serving in Iraq or Afghanistan. It's not defending the UK, it's not defending democracy or freedom, it's propping up Islamic fundamentalism and imperialism at the cost of massive innocent civilian casualties. There's nothing respectable about that in my opinion, and the fact that every soldier fighting over there made a conscious, free decision to do so doesn't really help.
So you judge young members, disproportionately, of Britain's underclass, who have signed up for a career that they largely deem to be respectable, on the basis of geopolitics? Nice.
It's easy to sneer from behind a textbook; however, building hospitals and supporting injured people, of any description, should almost never be seen as less than honourable.
Re: I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
Originally Posted by LostRiot
Great logic,
I think if everyone who disagreed with a single thing the government/country did left there wouldn't be much in the way of a population.
I'll explain in depth then. Tell me how you could change anything? Vote for an anti-war political party? Your anti-war views are held by a majority but only the minority would vote for a party with foreign policy on top of their agenda, well that's the case in this country. Alternatively you could move to a country like Japan with no armed forces at all.
I think if everyone who disagreed with a single thing the government/country did posted on TSR, there wouldn't be much in the way of bandwidth.
Debate issues that have a social and cultural impact, including but not limited to issues such as racism, teenage pregnancies, the social impact of religion, and the state of the education system
I disagree with the public acceptance of the poppy appeal
