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I would be one to disagree(Original post by Lawz-)
The only problem with that is that SATs are a fairly good metric for ability. THough some would disagree.
; but then again it's nearly impossible for anything to be fair.
Once you factor in the fact that some kids can afford prep classes or attend schools that prepare them for these sorts of examinations; it doesn't appear to put everyone on equal footing. -
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Indeed - but we shouldnt fall into the Nirvana fallacy.(Original post by Felicity)
I would be one to disagree ; but then again it's nearly impossible for anything to be fair.
Once you factor in the fact that some kids can afford prep classes or attend schools that prepare them for these sorts of examinations; it doesn't appear to put everyone on equal footing.
We do what we can. If people have a better alternative - it would be great...
however on the whole I think SATs level the playing field quite well... not all the way but as well as possible. -
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Paying For School(Original post by Lawz-)
You seem to think if you arent poor you are rich?
Since when did the entire middle class disappear?
You claim that Harvard is full of rich kids
To show evidence that only about 10-15% or from POOR families in no way supports your claim.
Business school was extremely expensive. Tuition for the top schools hung just under $30,000 per year. The Stern tuition bill topped the others last year--the school charged $29,800 for tuition.
So considering how a poor family is considered to earn below 18k a year what are the chances of them going to a top business school? And dont start with the 'grants' this grants that, they are given to a very small number of people. -
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1 - An MBA is normally funded by the company the person works for rather than the family of the student.(Original post by Alexdel)
Paying For School
Business school was extremely expensive. Tuition for the top schools hung just under $30,000 per year. The Stern tuition bill topped the others last year--the school charged $29,800 for tuition.
So considering how a poor family is considered to earn below 18k a year what are the chances of them going to a top business school? And dont start with the 'grants' this grants that, they are given to a very small number of people.
2 - An MBA is taken when you are about 26 or 27 or more - not as a young guy or girl
3. An MBA from Harvard or Stern (NYU) will mean you can earn over 150k a year quite easily - so it aint hard to borrow the money
4. Those doing MBAs are NOT all rich... you simply dont have evidence - most people take out a loan... I would say about 50% and about 80% get help from their employers -
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Oh - and thanks for ignoring the point again..(Original post by Alexdel)
Paying For School
Business school was extremely expensive. Tuition for the top schools hung just under $30,000 per year. The Stern tuition bill topped the others last year--the school charged $29,800 for tuition.
So considering how a poor family is considered to earn below 18k a year what are the chances of them going to a top business school? And dont start with the 'grants' this grants that, they are given to a very small number of people.
Wow .. youre really good at it it seems...
Or is it merely a silent concession? -
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For starters, you're guaranteed to get a few thousand in state grants if you go to a university in your home state. Secondly, you're guaranteed a few thousand of federal grants if you go to a university in the US. Thirdly, it's not difficult to get scholarships to cover at least half the cost of tuition if you have decent grades (B+ and higher). Fourthly, you're guaranteed student loans which charge a very low interest for an amount of up to $8k a year. Fifthly, banks are more than willing to give loans for whatever amount you're short. Sixthly, many college (including Harvard) don't charge tuition to students whose parents receive less than a certain amount of money ($40k per year in case of Harvard). Lastly, the top students don't pay any tuition, which means any poor student who has merit doesn't have to pay anything. Frankly, I know too many students from poor families who go to NYU (including the Stern School of Business) and Columbia to think that poor students can't make it to those schools.(Original post by Alexdel)
Paying For School
Business school was extremely expensive. Tuition for the top schools hung just under $30,000 per year. The Stern tuition bill topped the others last year--the school charged $29,800 for tuition.
So considering how a poor family is considered to earn below 18k a year what are the chances of them going to a top business school? And dont start with the 'grants' this grants that, they are given to a very small number of people.
You defined poor as someone who is in poverty, and 12% of Americans are in poverty.(Original post by Alexdel)
Where is the evidence that 12% are poor? -
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You repeat the same things all the time...'Thanks for ignoring me thanks for ignoring me' when I did provide you with a link you changed the argument to ...well 'there is still poor kids going' when the percentage is a well known worry in the US (apparently it is, since listening to you there is no problem at all)(Original post by Lawz-)
Oh - and thanks for ignoring the point again..
Wow .. youre really good at it it seems...
Or is it merely a silent concession?
Is that how you debate then? Calling people fool, kiddo and repeating the same melody of 'you are ingoring me you are ignoring me'? Impressive.. -
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Well I called you kiddo once.(Original post by Alexdel)
You repeat the same things all the time...'Thanks for ignoring me thanks for ignoring me' when I did provide you with a link you changed the argument to ...well 'there is still poor kids going' when the percentage is a well known worry in the US (apparently it is, since listening to you there is no problem at all)
Is that how you debate then? Calling people fool, kiddo and repeating the same melody of 'you are ingoring me you are ignoring me'? Impressive..
You called me "dear", and "sunshine"... wonderful...
Now as to me saying you are ignoring me -= its because you ARE...
I have made the point - you have failed to address it.
You said:
Harvard is full of rich kids
That is NOT the same as:
Harvard is full of kids who are not poor.
Now.. why is that you ask? Because you are not rich simply because you are poor.
Yo uhave not given any evidence that Harvard is full of "RICH KIDS".
Care to give any? -
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The CIA factbook? oh dear dear...I know of many innacuracies in that site mainly concerning the ethnic percentages in countries. This is mainly down to the fact that a lot of facts are provided by different pressure groups.(Original post by Bismarck)
For starters, you're guaranteed to get a few thousand in state grants if you go to a university in your home state. Secondly, you're guaranteed a few thousand of federal grants if you go to a university in the US. Thirdly, it's not difficult to get scholarships to cover at least half the cost of tuition if you have decent grades (B+ and higher). Fourthly, you're guaranteed student loans which charge a very low interest for an amount of up to $8k a year. Fifthly, banks are more than willing to give loans for whatever amount you're short. Sixthly, many college (including Harvard) don't charge tuition to students whose parents receive less than a certain amount of money ($40k per year in case of Harvard). Lastly, the top students don't pay any tuition, which means any poor student who has merit doesn't have to pay anything. Frankly, I know too many students from poor families who go to NYU (including the Stern School of Business) and Columbia to think that poor students can't make it to those schools.
You defined poor as someone who is in poverty, and 12% of Americans are in poverty.
Didnt the CIA also say that IRaq had WMD's? I mean this is the 'best' intelligence organisation in the world right? -
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(Original post by Lawz-)
Well I called you kiddo once.
You called me "dear", and "sunshine"... wonderful...
Now as to me saying you are ignoring me -= its because you ARE...
I have made the point - you have failed to address it.
You said:
Harvard is full of rich kids
That is NOT the same as:
Harvard is full of kids who are not poor.
Now.. why is that you ask? Because you are not rich simply because you are poor.
Yo uhave not given any evidence that Harvard is full of "RICH KIDS".
Care to give any?
And you have yet to provide any shred of evidence whatsoever, let alone showing that the others are just middle class student. At least I did provide something whereas as you provided non relevant information. -
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Sigh...(Original post by Alexdel)
The CIA factbook? oh dear dear...I know of many innacuracies in that site mainly concerning the ethnic percentages in countries. This is mainly down to the fact that a lot of facts are provided by different pressure groups.
Didnt the CIA also say that IRaq had WMD's? I mean this is the 'best' intelligence organisation in the world right?
ok
how about:
money.cnn.com/2004/08/26/news/economy/poverty_survey/?cnn=yes
Census says - 35 million in poverty. That is about 12% of the population.
Happy? -
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(Original post by Alexdel)
And you have yet to provide any shred of evidence whatsoever, let alone showing that the others are just middle class student. At least I did provide something whereas as you provided non relevant information.
JESUS ... You havent provided ANYTHING TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIM
YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING THE CLAIM - THUS IT IS FOR YOU TO PROVE IT - NOT ME TO DISPROVE IT.
If you said - the moon is made of jam - would I have to go and get hard evidence to show otherwise - or would you have to provide evidence to support you claim?
Come now ... stop passing the buck
Do you have evidence?
Yes or no? -
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Here's another source saying the same thing.(Original post by Alexdel)
The CIA factbook? oh dear dear...I know of many innacuracies in that site mainly concerning the ethnic percentages in countries. This is mainly down to the fact that a lot of facts are provided by different pressure groups.
Didnt the CIA also say that IRaq had WMD's? I mean this is the 'best' intelligence organisation in the world right? -
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Not that the purpose of the thread was actually being discussed
; but I thought this discussion on BBC was interesting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4638965.stm)
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(Original post by beekeeper_)
Hmm, and it is EXACTLY that kind of attitude that is always holding us back.
"you shouldn't control illegal immigration"
"you can't control illegal immigration"
RUBBISH. Of course we can protect our own borders, with hard work, increased security, and more access points from abroad.
well done !
