depression from philosophy

Heh, I agree Calvin.

Has anyone else noticed how to be 'philisophical' has become synomynous with to accept one's circumstances and to be fatalistic? "Ah he failed his exam but he's being philisophical about it".

Reply 22

coldfish

12

Philosophical has come to mean stoic, in the same way as metaphysical has come to mean waffle. :tongue:

I feel like I've been shown up a bit, I write a short little post saying that if philosophy makes you depressed you should get a grip and now I feel like the kind of person that I hate - the kind that don't bother to think about anything. :|

If anything my study of philosophy so far has been almost exclusively positive, though I did go through minor small panics after reading the section of Descartes where he is systematically destroying everything we know, and also when I realised that my moral ideas were just so relativistic that they may as well be nihilistic. (that happened as a direct result of my uni interview, actually. Can't wait until next year, I want that kind of thing to happen every week).

On the whole, though, I have a tendency to be a bit of a fair-weather philosopher. It's easy to see just how spectacularly wrong philosophy can be sometimes, and so whilst I consider it to be immensely important to philosophise, I don't change my practical views on life with every twist and turn of my understanding. There's a cool quote from Russel up there, and it's something similar to that. I think that dispassionate argument will generally be the more sound, and if it happened that through a dispassionate argument I came to a conclusion that was contrary to my current beliefs but that I could not refute, -then- would be the time to change.

alex - ramble over. (sorry)

Reply 23

Calvin

I respect the fact that the mathematicism probably knows more than me

Like how to spell 'mathematician'

Coldfish

On the whole, though, I have a tendency to be a bit of a fair-weather philosopher

To be honest for my first year or two as a philosopher I had some pretty wacky views. I was a staunch solipsist and went about raving it to everybody. I've certainly mellowed somewhat as a result of uni, I still hold some odd beliefs like idealism and so on, but actually the main mellowing has come not as a result of casting off wacky beliefs but rather of recognising that they aren't really that wacky. I don't really know how to explain it, perhaps I've just become more used to philosophical theories that I take them with more of a pinch of salt and less at their word and more in spirit. :confused:

Where are you off too Coldfish? (I may have asked this already and forgotten so I apologise if that's the case)

Reply 24

coldfish

12

If manage to learn my stuff for my last exam tomorrow, then Queens' Cambridge.

I know what you mean about the mellowing of the "that's so stupid" stuff. It's happened to me slightly having studied Hinduism... I never thought that I might actually come to agree with some of its philosophy. :P

Reply 25

Calvin

Gah! Or when people say 'Oh you do philosophy? So, if a tree falls in a forest...' and then smile smugly.

Or alternatively make some stupid irrelevent point half way through a discussion like 'ah but how do you know I exist' and think they've won. I don't have discussions with Mathematicans and think I'm right just because I can say dumb things like 0=1, I respect the fact that the mathematicism probably knows more than me, but everybody thinks they can be a philosopher.
I honestly love talking about philosophy with people, it just erks me when they think they know it all. :rolleyes:

Oh absolutely!!! :rofl:

So many people I've spoken to have done that!

I also hate it when a "philosopher" tries to cram in so much philosophical jargon into what he is saying that his motive seems to be to confuse rather than to clarify. Philosophy is seen as complicated and wishywashy - not clear and focused.

But I don't know, perhaps the know-it-alls are slightly more respectable than those who think philosophy is complete rubbish. :hmmmm2:

Reply 26

Adhsur

Oh absolutely!!! :rofl:

So many people I've spoken to have done that!

I also hate it when a "philosopher" tries to cram in so much philosophical jargon into what he is saying that his motive seems to be to confuse rather than to clarify. Philosophy is seen as complicated and wishywashy - not clear and focused.

But I don't know, perhaps the know-it-alls are slightly more respectable than those who think philosophy is complete rubbish. :hmmmm2:

I don't know, I really used to hate jargon. Even if they give you a fantastic definition of what they are going to mean by 'pragmaticist' until you've internalised the word properly its still going to confuse the hell out of you.
That being said, once you've been using that kind of stuff for a while it does kind of infiltrate your thinking and it becomes a useful shortcut. I hate the people who over-use jargon, but actually it's not so bad after a while in moderation. And then it makes you feel really clever :cool:

What really gets me what you see in some of the 18th and 19th century stuff. Where they have setences that are so full of commas that you have to read them from the middle outwards. Or stupidly long sentence where you can't keep track of what they are saying. I think I once found a sentence in Descarte that took up an entire page, something like 149 words long. Though on the whole Descartes is very clear.

Jargon isn't so bad, but clarity- agreed, sometimes you think they just want you to misunderstand. :mad:

Reply 27

candystrippa

OP

i posted this question in another thread but ppl seemed to have ignored it.. so
..

as you see depression from philosophy got to me so much that i decided to not study or work hard when i realized certain things i.e. insignificance of life (ok im not saying that im sure that life is significant but im just quoting this as an example to make my question shorter.. hope you knwo what i mean)

could that be a "reason" for under average GCSE grades?

i have "overcame" this problem now, because i have a desire to study phil in a good uni. but i am wondering if the admissions tutors will understand what i mean what i talk of this, because i feel that MAYBE a real philosophy professor could sympathise with my feelings, as i have read many philosophers have suffered mental breakdowns of this nature.

Reply 28

candystrippa

i posted this question in another thread but ppl seemed to have ignored it.. so
..

as you see depression from philosophy got to me so much that i decided to not study or work hard when i realized certain things i.e. insignificance of life (ok im not saying that im sure that life is significant but im just quoting this as an example to make my question shorter.. hope you knwo what i mean)

could that be a "reason" for under average GCSE grades?

i have "overcame" this problem now, because i have a desire to study phil in a good uni. but i am wondering if the admissions tutors will understand what i mean what i talk of this, because i feel that MAYBE a real philosophy professor could sympathise with my feelings, as i have read many philosophers have suffered mental breakdowns of this nature.

They might. Probably best to play it positive though- as in, was good at school but never really found my niche until I did philosophy and got to grips with the really fundamental issues. Rather than, philosophy made me not really give a damn about working at other subjects :biggrin:

Be positive, these guys are philosophers, but they don't want you... WOW! A rainbow outside!... freaking out when you convince yourself you don't know your hands exist. So yeah, if you feel it's important mention it, but try to be positive and make it a benefit rather than a negative aspect.

Reply 29

CrazyZebra

Philosophy is cool, it provides me with a perfect excuse for the thoughts I have always had (best described as derealization/occasional depersonalization - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derealization) without my own rather stupid mind entering the equation :biggrin:

Reply 30

Oh yeah! I love that bit when you come to a new subject in philosophy and you think "what's my take on this?" and then there is a period of going out and looking for you theory- the one that somes up your beliefs. It's like coming straight into a ready made group of friends rather than starting from the beginning and having that awkward period of introduction. Straight away there are argument and issues to deal with if you want to without having to do everything from scrath (unless you want to). I love that bit.

Reply 31

candystrippa

OP

calvin, thanks for your advice!!!
just curious... do you think you can relate to what i meant ?? or were you always capable of overcoming such type of depression? or...??

Reply 32

_Ellie

Depression happens for a lot of reasons. I mean, either there's philosophy depression, "existential angst", the big questions.. But what comes first, that or depression? Ha, let's discuss this properly, hm?

Reply 33

candystrippa

calvin, thanks for your advice!!!
just curious... do you think you can relate to what i meant ?? or were you always capable of overcoming such type of depression? or...??

Perhaps it would help if we knew what precisely your getting depressed about?
I'm not sure I ever got properly depressed about it in the way I think you are suggesting- not because I didn't take philosophy seriously but rather it never really concerned me that I couldn't support my views. Generally at first I was just very quick to discard whatever view I couldn't support. If somebody elses argument was more convincing I changed my belief. Hence the solipsism. But I'd distance myself from my philosophy. It's as Hume said, I might sit down and discover I have no justification for expecting the sun to rise tomorrow, but once I've done that I go have a pint with my friends afterwards just like anybody else. So I had some crazy views but they didn't really affect my life, only my philosophy.

More recently though I've grown in confidence a little and realised that everything is going to have convincing arguments for and against. The real point of philosophy isn't finding the argument which has no objections because there is no argument like that at the moment. So you either have to find a philosophical theory that fits your inclinations and defend it flaws and all, or create a new philosphy.
As such nowadays I tend to get hung up with being able to prove something I believe and less with what my beliefs are. I still change my beliefs sometimes. But because they are my beliefs rather than somebody elses it effects my life outside philosophy even less that it used to. So I still get depressed, but it's usually because I can't explain my beliefs or quite work out how to prove them and less because my beliefs are depressing. Any help?

Reply 34

Calvin

Oh yeah! I love that bit when you come to a new subject in philosophy and you think "what's my take on this?" and then there is a period of going out and looking for you theory- the one that somes up your beliefs. It's like coming straight into a ready made group of friends rather than starting from the beginning and having that awkward period of introduction. Straight away there are argument and issues to deal with if you want to without having to do everything from scrath (unless you want to). I love that bit.

I've never done that - such a good idea!

Reply 35

Calvin

So I still get depressed, but it's usually because I can't explain my beliefs or quite work out how to prove them and less because my beliefs are depressing. Any help?

Are you in effect saying you don't know why you believe the things you do?

Reply 36

Adhsur

Are you in effect saying you don't know why you believe the things you do?

Not sure that's really what I was saying but on a fundamental level, yes. But that would be psychology and sociology and to be honest I'm not interested in that much. Far more interested in the satus of those beliefs rather than the original source of them.

Reply 37

Calvin

Not sure that really what I was saying but on a fundamental level, yes. But that would be psychology and sociology and to be honest I'm not interested in that much. Far more interested in the satus of those beliefs rather than the original source of them.

Well I didn't mean where these beliefs come from but why you hold them now, despite not having a reason to. I suppose there is a distinction there.

Can you give me an example of a belief you can't give reasons for?

Reply 38

_Ellie

Well, surely faith is a belief that is partly irrational or illogical? Not that everyone believes this. But everyone believes ridiculous improbable things. That's why horror films scare us. (Like The Birds. Neurgh).

Reply 39