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A-level results day

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Ticki

The decision won't be made until A-level results day anyway because their ability to take you if you've missed your offer won't be known until the other results come out.

I think that's up to the admissions tutor, isn't it? There's no obligation to reject someone just because they've missed their offer. Don't be so negative. :wink:

I agree that the vast majority of tutors will wait to see if they're oversubscribed from people who've met their A-level offers. In these retake days, it's almost carelessness to miss an offer when you can bump up your AS grades at no risk.

Reply 21

Ticki

grumballcake

I think that's up to the admissions tutor, isn't it? There's no obligation to reject someone just because they've missed their offer. Don't be so negative. :wink:

Lol. By ability to take them, I mean that college won't know how much room they have for students until all the results are known, so IB students who have missed their offer will have to wait for A-level results day for a decision. As more offers are given out than there is room, it's unlikely that they'd be accepted immediately. IB candidates do tend to be more likely to get away with dropping a point than A-level candidates though.

Reply 22

musicbloke

grumballcake

I think that's up to the admissions tutor, isn't it? There's no obligation to reject someone just because they've missed their offer. Don't be so negative. :wink:

well, maybe some people can afford to take endless retakes, but many people go to poor schools and can't personally afford them. Apart from anything, I don't really think you should be making comments like that while people are waiting for results - is the aim just to make people feel sh*t if they miss their grades?

MB

Reply 23

musicbloke

Ticki

The decision won't be made until A-level results day anyway because their ability to take you if you've missed your offer won't be known until the other results come out. My friend missed his offer by a point and had an agonising wait that summer. Fingers crossed for you!

which other results? Surely Cambridge have the results from the weekend beforer results day.

MB

Reply 24

minimo

Personally I think that grumballcake is doing a fab job when it comes to giving advice on these boards.

Gets me a bit worried though...I hate doing retakes and would only do them if they were a dire necessity, didn't redo any AS exams.

Reply 25

amateurish

musicboy

exactly - people miss grades for all sorts of reasons. I did and I'm not doing too badly at Cambridge - for me it was because my teacher was completely useless. my school wouldn't pay for any retakes, and they wouldn't have helped anyway; the reason I slipped a grade was because of a skills-based synoptic paper, and surprise, I hadn't been taught any skills! I agree with MB, it's not fair to make blanket statements like that. if you're fortunate enough to have been able to do retakes and ensure you have a bit more of a buffer at A2 to make your offer more easily, then that's fine, but grumballcake, saying effectively that people who miss their grades did so because they were lazy is ridiculous.

Reply 26

JHutcher

I moved the day before a couple of very important exams these time... and my DOS sent that information onto the admission tutor for my file... unlikely i can drop a grade from an AAB offer... and even if i do i should be ashamed!

Reply 27

Charlottie

I'm missing my offer, and I'm not lazy. I've never worked so hard in my life. Who's saying we're lazy?

Reply 28

grumballcake

amateurish

if you're fortunate enough to have been able to do retakes

I'm not sure under what circumstances you couldn't retake a written paper. I can see that a school might be reluctant to devote the resources to retaing oral exams or complicated coursework. However, they would be in a very dodgy legal position if they refused to let you take a written exam. After all, they have a duty of care and refusal without a good reason could leave you with a claim against them. If retaking in the June series, unless the school has dropped the subject, it's likely that the year 12 pupils will be sitting the exam anyway, so it's only marginal cost to the school.
A letter to the LEA would be sufficient to move most, if not all, headmasters.

The system allows you to retake and a school does not have the right to unreasonably refuse you. The school might wish to pass on the costs of retakes to you and I don't think that would be unreasonable. Some students might find that onerous, but most people seem to manage to buy mobile phones, ringtones and alcohol. I'd see the cost of a retake as an investment in my future. However, let's allow the poverty-stricken person to skip the retake and those where their school cannot be budged. Now what about the rest?

grumballcake, saying effectively that people who miss their grades did so because they were lazy is ridiculous.

Well, if I'd said that, you might have a point, but I rather suspect that your tutors might be dismayed by such a careless piece of reading. It's not what I said.

I believe that if you don't take advantage of what the system offers when you can, then you're culpable. I guess it depends how much you want to go to a particular university - you might decide that you don't want to go badly enough to put up with the pain of retakes. That's fair enough - it's a risk-reward equation after all.

As this is in the Cambridge forum, I was working on the basis that people were prepared to work hard to get there and wanted to minimise their chances of missing their grades. If you think you'll sail through A2s and already had 90+%scores in the AS exams, then retakes might be overkill. However, if you only have an average of 81% and a retake is possible, then not to retake seems like playing 'chicken' to me.

I'd point out that something like 10-20% of people miss their grades for Oxbridge. The number who will get a place after that is very small (and will grow smaller). Would you like to tell those people that it wasn't worth retaking? How bad do you think they'll feel on results day, having followed yours and Musicbloke's advice, but wishing they'd taken mine?

As to my advice to people who've already cast the dice - there's not much to do. Worrying won't change anything and I'm sorry that I wasn't around to give you the advice earlier - I'm trying to help the current year 12. For year 13 students I've written a list of guidelines to prepare for results day, because it's much easier to do now with a clear head, than when overcome with disappointment.

Reply 29

grumballcake

Charlottie

I'm missing my offer, and I'm not lazy. I've never worked so hard in my life. Who's saying we're lazy?

Not me - I know that students work hard. I've been a student far more than any of you, after all. :smile:

Anyway, how do you know you'll miss your offer? People (especially talented ones) usually think they've done worse than they have.

Reply 30

Adhsur

grumballcake

I believe that if you don't take advantage of what the system offers when you can, then you're culpable. I guess it depends how much you want to go to a particular university - you might decide that you don't want to go badly enough to put up with the pain of retakes. That's fair enough - it's a risk-reward equation after all.

But that's crazy because in theory you can always improve your chances by doing endless retakes. If I got 95% in all my AS exams, then according to you it still makes sense to retake them because I can still improve on them and lower my chances of missing the offer. Supposing I don't retake all these modules (quite reasonably) and then I miss my offer grade by a few percent, would you call me careless for not having retook my AS exams?!

There are many reasons for missing offers - the answer isn't "retake anything you can and you'll be fine".

Also, I should also point out that even though retakes are beneficial in many cases, in many they are not because you have too many then as well having A level stress on your brain, you have the added burden/revision of all these AS levels - too many exams can make you worse at all of them.

Reply 31

JaF

Adhsur

I don't think thats quite what he is saying:

grumballcake

If you think you'll sail through A2s and already had AS scores in the AS exams, then retakes might be overkill. However, if you only have an average of 81% and a retake is possible, then not to retake seems like playing 'chicken' to me.

Reply 32

Charlottie

grumballcake

Anyway, how do you know you'll miss your offer? People (especially talented ones) usually think they've done worse than they have.

Simple, I have a B at AS and messed up one of my papers. I've never wanted to cry in an exam before, even when I've thought I wasn't doing well, and so I'm taking it as a good indicator.

Reply 33

grumballcake

Adhsur

But that's crazy because in theory you can always improve your chances by doing endless retakes

If I got 95% in all my AS exams, then according to you it still makes sense to retake them

It might, but there's a cost/benefit. I think that I said only retake under 90%, but people don't seem to be reading what I actually wrote. :frown:

miss my offer grade by a few percent, would you call me careless for not having retook my AS exams?!

No, but I might call you careless for not working hard enough on your A2s. To get 65% UMS, you only need just over 55% of the raw marks in most A2s.

you have too many then

That's, true but there's usually one A2 module that's synoptic, so you should be revising those subjects hard anyway.

I've offered a specific strategy which is optimal for success at A2. No-one will make you follow it. Given that my son might be competing in some subjects, I'm quite happy for people to pursue a sub-optimal route. :smile:

Reply 34

grumballcake

Charlottie

Simple, I have a B at AS and messed up one of my papers.

I'm really sorry to hear that. Do you need an A for your offer? It's a bummer, but there's not much you can do. Just prepare an action plan, put it somewhere safe and go enjoy the summer. Don't import trouble from the future into today. Who knows? Maybe everyone screwed up that day and the grade boundaries will be lower.

Reply 35

Steveee

Well I've read what grumballcake has to say and it sounds like a lot of sense!

Some people have odd views on retakes, but some subjects (languages, chemistry, etc) you get so much more experienced in the subject that your AS papers turn out to be really easy.

Reply 36

amateurish

grumballcake

I'd point out that something like 10-20% of people miss their grades for Oxbridge. The number who will get a place after that is very small (and will grow smaller). Would you like to tell those people that it wasn't worth retaking? How bad do you think they'll feel on results day, having followed yours and Musicbloke's advice, but wishing they'd taken mine?

I didn't actually offer any advice; I never said 'don't do retakes, they're useless'. I simply stated that retakes wouldn't have helped me make my grades. The point I was making is that retakes are by no means the only reason people miss grades, and doing them doesn't always minimise the risk of missing grades, as you put it. I'm sorry if you feel that I was contradicting any of the advice you give on this forum, which seems sensible enough to me; I was just using myself as an example to point out that retakes aren't the be all and end all of missing grades; if I'd done them, I still would have got a B in Geography, and believe me, it wasn't through carelessness (not on my part, anyway!). It seems that you misread what I was saying slightly as well!

Reply 37

grumballcake

amateurish

I simply stated that retakes wouldn't have helped me make my grades.

Fair enough. If you really screw up A2s then AS retakes won't help, I agree. My point has been that it's actually easier (in my view) to get 90 + 70 than it is to get 80 + 80. The marks for AS are much more readily obtained than at A2 but they count just the same.

doing them doesn't always minimise the risk of missing grades,

With respect, I think it does for the conditions I've described. Whatever improvement you get in AS, is minimising any under-performance at A2. It's not a guarantee that you won't miss, but with 300/300 at AS you only need 180/300 (i.e the C/D boundary) at A2 to average an A. Retaking AS also has value in itself because you should get benefit on the synoptic paper.

I accept that it increases the workload, although I'm dubious about whether it increases stress. After all, you can't actually decrease your marks. I also accept that it might take away from revision time on A2 modules, so it's not completely cost free.

Reply 38

Adhsur

Sorry, I probably misunderstood a lot of what you said, grumballcake. But I'll clarify a few of my points anyway:

grumballcake

I'm not sure how you got that idea. Your offers at university are for one year only. The offer won't sit there while you retake after your A2s or ASs. Theoretically, you could keep retaking forever, but you might stop getting offers from universities.
I didn't actually mean retaking over time - I was referring to retaking a LOT of subjects (all in the same year).

grumballcake

It might, but there's a cost/benefit. I think that I said only retake under 90%, but people don't seem to be reading what I actually wrote. :frown:

So basically we should retake any module in which we get less than 90%? That seems wrong too.

grumballcake

No, but I might call you careless for not working hard enough on your A2s. To get 65% UMS, you only need just over 55% of the raw marks in most A2s.

I just don't think the answer is that simple - that you are careless if you cannot meet your offer (despite having good ASs). But ok, fair enough - in most cases it really is about how much work you put in.

grumballcake

That's, true but there's usually one A2 module that's synoptic, so you should be revising those subjects hard anyway.