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The bumper thread of University League Tables discussion - includes an info post

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Rate your uni — help us build a league table based on real student views 19-08-2015
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    This year's Times Uni League Tables will be published on 14th June.

    Anyone want to predict the top 10?
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    (Original post by warmday)
    This year's Times Uni League Tables will be published on 14th June.

    Anyone want to predict the top 10?



    Do you have a link to last year's table?
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    Cambridge
    Oxford
    LSE
    Imperial
    Warick
    St. Andrews
    Durham
    UCL
    Bath
    Lancaster
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    (Original post by warmday)
    This year's Times Uni League Tables will be published on 14th June.

    Anyone want to predict the top 10?
    Cambridge
    Oxford
    LSE
    Imperial
    Durham
    UCL
    Warwick
    St Andrews
    Bath
    Exeter

    I'll be negged to hell by Lancaster students for this.
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    (Original post by warmday)
    This year's Times Uni League Tables will be published on 14th June.

    Anyone want to predict the top 10?
    The most volatile figures are student satisfaction and spending. The least volatile is research which is fixed at last year's results. Lancaster has no score that is spectacular but but has no very weak score.

    The key to picking a top ten is which university is going to get rid of its poor score and which university is going to get a new problem score?
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    (Original post by TheBiochemist)
    Do you have a link to last year's table?
    Afraid not. Got to subscribe to read The Times.

    League tables should put more emphasis (greater weighting) on the hard facts, ie entry requirements and employment stats and less on subjective fields like student satisfaction. Otherwise, why not have a ranking on employers satisfaction as well?
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    (Original post by warmday)
    Otherwise, why not have a ranking on employers satisfaction as well?
    Such data would be extremely hard to collect and quantify, and surely the employment percentage gives a reasonable view as to how satisfied employers are anyway since they won't be employing from universities they aren't satisfied with.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Such data would be extremely hard to collect and quantify, and surely the employment percentage gives a reasonable view as to how satisfied employers are anyway since they won't be employing from universities they aren't satisfied with.
    Maybe it is hard but it would be more meaningful to see how others (ie employers) perceive a certain univerisity or degree than to ask the students' themselves as unltimately, they (the students) will be judged by others (be it employers when they seek work or academics if they choose to pursue postgraduate studies).
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    (Original post by warmday)
    Maybe it is hard but it would be more meaningful to see how others (ie employers) perceive a certain univerisity or degree than to ask the students' themselves as unltimately, they (the students) will be judged by others (be it employers when they seek work or academics if they choose to pursue postgraduate studies).
    I think you're falling into the classic A-level student trap of thinking that employers employ universities rather than actual people. The vast majority of employers have invested in systems that allow them to extract the relevant information from applicants and aren't interested in the staff to student ratio of the university they attended.

    To get such information you'd have to rely on a great deal of cooperation from employers which is extremely unlikely as it's simply not worth their time. My previous employer would never be bothered to contribute to such a table because they never use them and have zero interest in them.
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    (Original post by lotsofq)
    I would like to hear some thoughts on the following:

    What would be the response if I were to say that Oxbridge are NOT the two best unis in the UK?
    Best in terms of overall quality in a wide range of subjects I would say. However some other universities have equal or stronger departments, Economics / Law at LSE for example.

    I agree with you and I would say that the media and long standing prestige has formed a protective bubble around Oxbridge. They will attract the top students for a long time to come, despite the quality gap between the two and other top universities closing. My school almost forced our top pupils to apply to Oxbridge and didn't even mention London, Durham, St Andrews and so on.

    Personally I feel their admissions process is the height of egoism and displays total ignorance to other universities; by restricting students to applying for one or the other they imply a dominance of the top two UK ranks. I didn't apply (as you may have guessed) but I was disgusted when I heard of the blatently rude interviewing techniques they employed with some of my friends, how they claim to select students on academic potential yet base selection largely on interview and test performance under enormous pressure is beyond me. The process sounds more appropriate for postgraduate study than for 16/17 year olds. As well as this, I hear of more and more cases of people rejecting or insuring Oxbridge courses, is it fair to ask them to go through all that to do so? One very religious girl in my year rejected her offer after being put off by the interview process.

    I think their admissions process needs toned down a little, to bring it in line with the rest of the UK. The sooner the bells and whistles are taken from Oxbridge the sooner the university market in the UK becomes more competitive and students are given a better experience.


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    (Original post by North Irelandman)
    Best in terms of overall quality in a wide range of subjects I would say. However some other universities have equal or stronger departments, Economics / Law at LSE for example.

    I agree with you and I would say that the media and long standing prestige has formed a protective bubble around Oxbridge. They will attract the top students for a long time to come, despite the quality gap between the two and other top universities closing. My school almost forced our top pupils to apply to Oxbridge and didn't even mention London, Durham, St Andrews and so on.

    Personally I feel their admissions process is the height of egoism and displays total ignorance to other universities; by restricting students to applying for one or the other they imply a dominance of the top two UK ranks. I didn't apply (as you may have guessed) but I was disgusted when I heard of the blatently rude interviewing techniques they employed with some of my friends, how they claim to select students on academic potential yet base selection largely on interview and test performance under enormous pressure is beyond me. The process sounds more appropriate for postgraduate study than for 16/17 year olds. As well as this, I hear of more and more cases of people rejecting or insuring Oxbridge courses, is it fair to ask them to go through all that to do so? One very religious girl in my year rejected her offer after being put off by the interview process.

    I think their admissions process needs toned down a little, to bring it in line with the rest of the UK. The sooner the bells and whistles are taken from Oxbridge the sooner the university market in the UK becomes more competitive and students are given a better experience.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
    As someone else has already mentioned on TSR, if Oxbridge really are that good, why has there been no attempt to copy or even better them?

    Or is it because they are deliberately kept special, with its matriculation dinners, the point you made about not being able to apply to both, getting an MA for a bachelors degree, eight week terms, not being able to get a job during term time, etc.
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    (Original post by lotsofq)
    As someone else has already mentioned on TSR, if Oxbridge really are that good, why has there been no attempt to copy or even better them?
    you can't just make years and years of history and invent loads of famous alumni.
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    (Original post by North Irelandman)
    Best in terms of overall quality
    in a wide range of subjects I would say. However some other universities have equal or stronger departments, Economics / Law at LSE for example.
    Compare how many courses Oxford and Cambridge offer in comparison to LSE and it is not hard to understand why this is the case.

    I agree with you and I would say that the media and long standing prestige has formed a protective bubble around Oxbridge. They will attract the top students for a long time to come, despite the quality gap between the two and other top universities closing. My school almost forced our top pupils to apply to Oxbridge and didn't even mention London, Durham, St Andrews and so on.
    I seriously doubt you would be writing in this manner if roles were reversed and it was your university (LSE) at the top of the tree.

    Personally I feel their admissions process is the height of egoism and displays total ignorance to other universities; by restricting students to applying for one or the other they imply a dominance of the top two UK ranks. I didn't apply (as you may have guessed) but I was disgusted when I heard of the blatently rude interviewing techniques they employed with some of my friends, how they claim to select students on academic potential yet base selection largely on interview and test performance under enormous pressure is beyond me. The process sounds more appropriate for postgraduate study than for 16/17 year olds. As well as this, I hear of more and more cases of people rejecting or insuring Oxbridge courses, is it fair to ask them to go through all that to do so? One very religious girl in my year rejected her offer after being put off by the interview process.

    I think their admissions process needs toned down a little, to bring it in line with the rest of the UK. The sooner the bells and whistles are taken from Oxbridge the sooner the university market in the UK becomes more competitive and students are given a better experience.
    The fact that you haven't been through the admission process or interview process makes me question how you can be so defiant in your critique of their admission process. I went through the process and it is not flawless, but has merits. I'm guessing that you think A-Levels are an accurate indicator of academic potential then if you question the validity of academic interviews and an admission test. This measure is no worse than the one used by the likes of LSE and UCL where being an exam machine will suffice along with a vaguely coherent personal statement. At least the interview system allows them to weed out those who are not entirely passionate or committed to their subject (like myself) I know people off to LSE and UCL with not much more then a passing interest in their subject.

    They do not need to imply a dominance of the top two UK ranks. That is pretty much the consensus in the world let alone the UK, Oxford and Cambridge are widely perceived to be our strongest universities by a margin. Noone would label Harvard as 'ignorant' if it claimed to be one of the top two in the USA I had 2 x 30 minutes interviews + an admission test. I've had interviews in the past for part time jobs lasting longer then that. For anyone with an ounce of composure, the interview process really is not that scary and intimidating. Many other universities interview, so it is not exclusive to Oxbridge. Not enjoying the interview says more about the individual than the institution.
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    hey everyone, don't want to be an annoying spammer but having a really difficult time deciding on my University choice so if you have time please vote Thank you! http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=2022727
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    Hi,

    Just looking at Universities and wondering if it is worrying if a university is significantly lower (20 places) in the league tables. Southampton is 15th nationally, yet 35th for Politics, how much of an issue/worry is this? Does it mean that much? And what is the general reputation of Southampton for Politics?

    Thanks in advance
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    League tables are pretty sketchy in terms of their methods of determining places. Take them with a pinch of salt generally, unless there's a general consensus that a particular university is poor.

    Southampton is a very good university as far as I know.
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    In short, I've got a poll to help me decide what University offer to accept between York and Nottingham, and it's sods law that the vote is currently 50 50. Please vote and lend me some advice if you can! Thank you http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...727&p=37941076
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    (Original post by Chazzap)
    Hi,

    Just looking at Universities and wondering if it is worrying if a university is significantly lower (20 places) in the league tables. Southampton is 15th nationally, yet 35th for Politics, how much of an issue/worry is this? Does it mean that much? And what is the general reputation of Southampton for Politics?

    Thanks in advance
    It's a pretty good department especially for IR, IPE and British Politics. I don't know too much about the course though.
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    Well, this year's Times University Rankings seemed much more sensible, thankfully.
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    (Original post by lotsofq)
    As someone else has already mentioned on TSR, if Oxbridge really are that good, why has there been no attempt to copy or even better them?

    Or is it because they are deliberately kept special, with its matriculation dinners, the point you made about not being able to apply to both, getting an MA for a bachelors degree, eight week terms, not being able to get a job during term time, etc.
    I wouldn't go as far to say they are deliberately kept special, but I think they attempt to keep themselves special. There is no denying that they see themselves as a class above every other UK university, and naturally they will strive to keep employers and the public thinking the same. Whether they do this by constantly improving their teaching and research or by trivial means such as their applications process is up for debate.

    (Original post by Tsunami2011)
    Compare how many courses Oxford and Cambridge offer in comparison to LSE and it is not hard to understand why this is the case.
    Are you saying that Oxbridge should be considered better overall because of their number of courses or that they shouldn't be expected to retain top spots against a specialist university? I don't think LSE is the right institution to use as an overall comparison but it was the first that came to mind when thinking about subjects where Oxbridge does not have an assumed top rank in.

    I seriously doubt you would be writing in this manner if roles were reversed and it was your university (LSE) at the top of the tree.
    What you say there has no relevance to what you quoted, and remind me where I stated that LSE was my university. I only used it as an example off the top of my head, I could have equally used ICL for engineering.

    The fact that you haven't been through the admission process or interview process makes me question how you can be so defiant in your critique of their admission process. I went through the process and it is not flawless, but has merits. I'm guessing that you think A-Levels are an accurate indicator of academic potential then if you question the validity of academic interviews and an admission test. This measure is no worse than the one used by the likes of LSE and UCL where being an exam machine will suffice along with a vaguely coherent personal statement. At least the interview system allows them to weed out those who are not entirely passionate or committed to their subject (like myself) I know people off to LSE and UCL with not much more then a passing interest in their subject.
    I'm not saying that the current measures used by other universities are anywhere near perfect, I just think the Oxbridge process has become another technique to promote the Oxbridge 'brand'; who could say they didn't feel left out when their career's teacher was fussing over the Oxbridge applicants, organising mock interviews and such? I feel a friend of mine was cheated out of his place despite being incredibly passionate about his subject, straight A*s, fantastic statement, good charisma (head of our public speaking) but was ill around the time of his Oxford visit and said he did poorly.

    They do not need to imply a dominance of the top two UK ranks. That is pretty much the consensus in the world let alone the UK, Oxford and Cambridge are widely perceived to be our strongest universities by a margin. Noone would label Harvard as 'ignorant' if it claimed to be one of the top two in the USA I had 2 x 30 minutes interviews + an admission test. I've had interviews in the past for part time jobs lasting longer then that. For anyone with an ounce of composure, the interview process really is not that scary and intimidating. Many other universities interview, so it is not exclusive to Oxbridge. Not enjoying the interview says more about the individual than the institution.
    Is it the consensus because of historical factors. I wouldn't disagree that Oxford and Cambridge are the top two overall universities in the UK, but it makes me wonder what happens as the gap between the two and the rest of the table closes. How long does it take before other universities will gather together a history and list of alumni even comparable?

    Personally I feel I would have enjoyed the interviews, but it is not fair to say that "anyone with an ounce of composure" will not be scared and intimidated. Similarly, just as people can get away with pretending to be passionate about their subject in a personal statement, people can pretend to be passionate about their subject in interviews. Interviews will weed out those with more composure, which is not a bad thing, but it means outstanding students can slip through the net.

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