English law in America?

What kind of prospects are there for a person who has an english law degree and the extra training of the LPC and the further training, in america?

Reply 1

xmaspoop

you could sit for the bar... but in reality, big US law firms would rather have their own americans with a JD than a brit with a LLB.

Reply 2

JohnnyJamJar

I would like to immigrate, but want to do english law too

Reply 3

westkingwolf

i'm looking into moving to Canada when i finsh so let me know what you find out

Reply 4

chalks

There will be extremely limited opportunities for an English qualified solicitor to practise in the US. If you're looking to emmigrate then I suggest you consider a different career.

Reply 5

Ariel4

chalks

There will be extremely limited opportunities for an English qualified solicitor to practise in the US. If you're looking to emmigrate then I suggest you consider a different career.

thats true. you will have to do the american law qualifications, which are incredibly expensive. then there is the problem of finding a job after you have qualified.

Reply 6

Onearmedbandit

I've heard that English barristers are highly sought after in law firms all over the world. :smile:

Reply 7

chalks

On what basis?

Not only is English and US law hugely different but trial procedure and advocacy in those two jurisdictions differs to a massive extent too. I'd be surprised to find an English Counsel working in the US.

Reply 8

Onearmedbandit

chalks

Well that's just what I've heard.

Besides, you have to take a vocational course to qualify as a US lawyer, don't you? You probably learn the American ways there.

I guess what was meant is that English barristers seem to have a reputation for being very good at what they do. I don't know if it's true, that's just what I was told.

Reply 9

UniWarwick

I plan on doing an LLM in America, and I also know numerous lawyers in the States. Apparently it should be fine, I would disagree with the individuals who think it isn't possible or at the very least a bad decision.

Reply 10

Craigy_Boy

UniWarwick

Of course it's possible to qualify as a US attorney at some stage after your British training. And yes, taking a US LLM will allow you to sit the bar exam in a number of states (though I understand that it is possible to sit the NY and California bar exams with just an Oxbridge or London law degree anway - someone may want to check that). But I think the point being made by the posters above was that there is no easy or cheap way of transferring across, at least not without studying for some sort of (possibly lengthy, and definitely expensive) US qualification first.

Even a US LLM, though only one year in duration, will cost around $30k in fees alone (not to mention living expenses), and as far as I know there are very few scholarships available to assist with these costs (particularly for internationals) - so you might have to find that money yourself. By way of example, here is the information from the Harvard Law School page at http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/graduate/admissions/index.php?page=llm#financing:

All financial aid awards are based on the applicant's financial need. Although the amount available is increasing every year, our funds are limited. For a small number of LL.M. students with particularly acute financial need, we are able to fund full tuition and a portion of living expenses. However, not all students who apply for financial aid receive it, and most students who do receive financial aid receive awards covering less than half of their total expenses for the year. Law School regulations do not allow for any waiver of tuition and fees.

There's someone who contributes to this board, I forget who but they may comment here, who received offers from Oxford for a BCL and Harvard for an LLM, but was leaning toward taking Oxford simply because Harvard were not offering enough money for them to be able to afford to attend.

And even then, it's hard to predict how you will fare in the US job market - there isn't really call for anyone there to be practicing English law so your British knowledge might be rather redundant, and having only had one year of US law by doing an LLM may put you behind US-educated job applicants (who will have a 3-year JD) in any event.

Reply 11

FatDogg

I'm an American, Ivy-League educated, and have worked as a paralegal at a large top 3 firm for two years, a small in-house firm for the last 3, and can categorically dispute that it is prohibitively difficult to work at a US firm with a UK LLB. Not only were there several attorneys from all over the world (the majority of the international attorneys being UK educated), there is at least one partner in the corporate department of the large firm that was UK educated. Not only that, I have a friend at another New York firm with a UK LLB who actually helped me with my UK applications (I'll be in the UK this fall), and there is an Australian at the very small firm where I work now.

Most of my friends who are lawyers (nothing to be proud of, I know :wink:

) have gone to schools from Harvard, Stanford, NYU, etc., and to a man they've all said that studying law at American institutions doesn't teach you how to be a lawyer ironically, it teaches you how to "think like a lawyer". Learning how to actually be a lawyer happens when you sit for the Bar and are finally on the job. Therefore, whatever differences that may exist in the legal systems is fully accounted for when a foreign educated lawyer sits for the Bar if and when they qualify to do so. If there is any doubt to my claim, consider the fact that the American Bar Association in New York routinely allows graduates from Oxbridge and UCL to sit for the bar without any sort of 'conversion'. (If you don't believe me, go to the ABA site yourself and see.)

Chalks, I've read many of your previous posts and most have varied from very to extremely helpful/useful. It's disappointing to read your (inaccurate) thoughts on this topic only because they will only serve to discourage people from following through on an endeavor that though, is not easy, is by no means impossible.

Reply 12

UniWarwick

Craigy_Boy

I am aware of what was stated, and I didn't really claim otherwise. I was simply sharing my opinion on the matter. I have met many individuals who foolishly consider it impossible to become a lawyer in the States with an LLB.

Financially speaking I am fully prepared to pay the cost of a master's degree. My primary issue is being accepted by my preferences.

Craigy_Boy

And even then, it's hard to predict how you will fare in the US job market - there isn't really call for anyone there to be practicing English law so your British knowledge might be rather redundant, and having only had one year of US law by doing an LLM may put you behind US-educated job applicants (who will have a 3-year JD) in any event.

I think FatDogg's post adresses this point quite well. An LLB will be a disadvantage comparatively but I wouldn't go as far as to claim that it is hard to predict how I will fare in the US job market.

Reply 13

chalks

FatDogg clearly has far better knowledge of the position in the States - my apologies for the inaccuracies. I stand by my original point though which is that if you're looking to emmigrate to the US there must be easier career paths to choose.

Chalks

Reply 14

Craigy_Boy

UniWarwick

Financially speaking I am fully prepared to pay the cost of a master's degree.

Well good luck to you mate, but I don't think that many would find themselves in such a position, and anecdotally at least (from a straw poll conducted amongst my friends, so please excuse the scientific inexactitude) for most people I know, funding is (at least) half the battle with US graduate admissions.

UniWarwick

An LLB will be a disadvantage comparatively but I wouldn't go as far as to claim that it is hard to predict how I will fare in the US job market.

OK, let me put it like this, I'd have thought that the only person who wouldn't find it hard to predict (given the relative rarity of a Brit with an LLB applying for US jobs) would be an American person responsible for legal recruitment and, since neither one of us are that, then I think my point still stands.

Reply 15

SlyPie

Ariel4

thats true. you will have to do the american law qualifications, which are incredibly expensive. then there is the problem of finding a job after you have qualified.

Not to mention he has to pass the bar exam for American law prior to working. (You pass state bar exams; which means if you pass the California bar exam you can only practice law in California, etc. You have to pass them individually per state.)

I would recommend that he does international law.

Having an English law degree does not help you find a job at all in America.

Study international law & get an American law degree (which requires 3 years for a juris doctorate); then pass the bar exam for whatever state you want to reside in, and then try to find a job.

Reply 16

SlyPie

chalks

I agree with you Chalks, only because I'm an undergraduate American who has done research into law school/graduate school, etc.

Reply 17

UniWarwick

Craigy_Boy

Thanks, well the reason I am claiming it won't be hard to predict how well I will fare is partly due to personal qualifications, and knowing individuals who have been through the process. It certainly will be more challenging than practicing it england, but I feel that it will be more rewarding. Also another option which I was considering is practicing in Canada, which I know would be straightforward.