Thinking of reapplying

I was rejected from Trinity (Cambridge) for maths last year, without being pooled, and I'm giving some thought to reapplying for the same subject this year. The problem is that I'd be throwing away a place at a decent uni (Nottingham) and I'd have to bear the additional costs of top up fees. I wouldn't mind that if I got in (I could probably make up the costs working in the gap year) but obviously if I was rejected again it'd be quite a waste. I wanted an opinion as to whether its a worthwhile gamble with the grades I'm likely to get:

AAAB in maths, physics, further maths and chemistry, plus an A/B in general studies, and an A in AS IT.
STEP II+III 1,2 or maybe 1,1 (maybe even 2,1, although I wouldn't bother if I got 2,2)
AEA physics merit or hopefully distinction.

I don't think I'm wrong in saying those grades make me at least a decent candidate, going mainly by the fact that I'd likely have met my offer if I'd been given one (a good number of potential mathmos don't). According to my feedback from last year my GCSEs were the main factor in my rejection (2A*,6A,2B), but I'm hoping those will be less significant now I have A levels. I also know my interview was less than stellar, but I feel confident I could improve on that with a second chance.

I apologise if I'm rambling a bit, and I apologise again if you've seen these threads before, but do you have any thoughts? What would you do in my situation?

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Reply 1

kellywood_5

Personally I wouldn't bother, but that's just because I don't see the point in declining an offer at a perfectly good university and reapplying next year in the hope that Cambridge will accept you even though they might reject you again and other universities like Nottingham might not bother giving you an offer the second time around. It's also a waste of a year unless you can find something constructive to do with it. To be honest, I think if you went to Nottingham and got a 1st/2.1, plus lots of extra-curricular activities, work experience etc, you wouldn't really be in any worse position upon graduation than you would be if you'd gone to Cambridge. Oxbridge may be good, but it's not the be all and end all. On the other hand, this is just my opinion and it has to be you who makes this decision. If you really feel you have a good chance of getting an offer if you reapply, you wouldn't be totally devestated if you were rejected again and you can think of good ways to use a year off, there's no harm in trying as long as you want to go there because you really like the course and not just for the prestige factor. As for your chances, your expected grades are certainly very impressive, but unfortunately almost all applicants will have those grades or better. I'd definitely reapply to a different college this time though. Maybe try your luck at a less famous one?

Reply 2

H&E

Wait till you get your grades before deciding. Who knows, you may get 1:1 and then be very likely to be admitted

Reply 3

leannemarie

I agree with Kelly, if you got rejected again, you'd be gutted. You may have all those grades, but hasn't everyone who's applying? Oxbridge look at GCSEs as they believe it shows your academic potential over a period of time and in the end, there will always be someone who's a little bit better than you, no matter what you've done.

Reply 4

Robert602

Thanks for the advice. If you'd permit me another ramble (it does feel good to get some of this off my chest):

I certainly intend to wait for my results before making any final decisions, although results day is probably my last good chance to talk to my teachers about it. Honestly, my motivations aren't about presitge or post-graduation prospects, I just believe (and I might be wrong) that I'd be happier there, corny as it sounds I loved the atmosphere and the whole culture of the place. I mean no disrespect to Nottingham but I just don't feel as enthusiastic about living and studying there as I probably should. Then again, I have no doubt it'd grow on me if I went there.

About everyone having the grades, that's probably for true most subjects, but STEP is something particular to maths offers that most candidates can't be entirely confident of getting (I hear about half fail to meet their offer, usually 1,2). So as H&E says, good grades in this (1,1, fingers crossed) would give me some kind of edge. Whether it would be enough to make up for poor GCSEs and B in chemistry I can't say.

And as to whether I'd be devastated if I was rejected again, I don't think I would. I'd obviously be disappointed but if anything I'd get some closure from it, instead of 'what if', maybe for the next few years. I'm pretty confident that I could get a place at another good uni if not Cambridge (or Nottingham), so I don't think throwing away my current place would be a massive waste in that respect.

What I'd do in the gap year is something I really havent given enough thought to, although I do have some serious ideas about self employment in the computing world (a few pieces of software all but ready to go out and sell). Not exhilerating stuff I know but it'd keep me occupied.

Thanks again.

Reply 5

H&E

It's pointless speculating till you get your results (you could get S,S and be able to do what you like, get 3,3 and be fooked) but...you could think about applying somewhere other than Trinity. It's insanely competitive for maths.

Reply 6

Hoofbeat

My other concern is that a lot of colleges at Oxford (and therefore I'm assuming Cam is the same) do no tlike Mathematicians to take gap years as they lose so much of their knowledge during that one year, so before you even consider it, I would investigate whether this is the case and even if it isn't then you would really need a gap year that involved a lot of maths.

Reply 7

homoterror

Clare College says on their website "We will make an offer to anybody we think will make the standard offer." The standard offer for Maths at Clare is AAB + 1,1. Which maybe you've achieved. I think if they rejected you, there's an argument "how come you make offers to anybody you think might make the offer and not somebody who has already made the offer?" Of course this wouldn't get you an offer, but I know people who had S,S and applied to Clare for this reason =P (got in)

Reply 8

kellywood_5

Liking the atmosphere and being happy at whichever university you end up at is the most important thing because if you're not happy, you won't work as hard and won't do as well. Nottingham probably would grow on you, but if you genuinely believe you'd be happier at Cambridge, maybe it'd be worth trying again.

Having good STEP results when so many people miss their offers because of them should definitely give you an advantage. Your GCSE results may not be the best, but they're certainly not poor and I didn't think chemistry was that relevant to maths anyway.

Not being devestated at a rejection is definitely a bonus, and I'm sure you would get offers from some other good universities, so if Cambridge didn't give you an offer, you could go somewhere else knowing that at least you tried again.

It's a good point about the gap year though; maths is one of those subjects you forget very easily if you don't use it, so you'd need to make sure you did something maths-related or promised to review your A-level work before starting the course.

Reply 9

Robert602

H&E

I've come to realise that, I don't intend to apply to Trinity again (it's a shame though, I did like it). I'll try to keep the speculation to a minimum too, but you probably know what it's like waiting for results.

Hoofbeat: I'm aware that there are different attitudes towards gap years. I've had a look at this website and it seems to suggest that some colleges actually encourage it. I'm not sure how current or correct that page is but it gives an idea. Regardless, I will be keeping an active mathematical mind next year (gap year or not), to be honest I enjoy it too much not to, and some of that software I'd probably end up working on is mathematical educational stuff, at a high enough level to keep me thinking.

Homoterror: Thanks for the information. According to that link above Clare also don't mind gap years, if I decide to reapply I'll give them some serious thought.

Thanks again everyone, you've genuinely been a great help.

Reply 10

ogs

My friends doing maths at cam, and she hates it and wishes that she'd gone to nottingham instead. she was incredible at school and didn't do too well in the 1st year...
so really think about it...
and personalities count when accepting new students in cam, they often don't want people that already know everything, they want people that they can teach...although maths dep may be very different!
good luck with whatever decision that you make.
you'll save thousands by going this year

Reply 11

silence

i'm in a vaguely similar boat (although with another subject), but almost as soon as the oxbridge rejection came through, and i more to an extent when all 6 unis had replied, i knew that whether i decided to apply again or not i'd have to really look at my firm choice uni. with the prospect of reapplication, and even failure at reapplying, i made the decision to "become" passionate about the place i was most likely to be going. it's a bit of a weird thing to say i guess, but rather than browsing the oxford college websites and daydreaming into the computer screen, i found as much out about my course at my new uni as possible, went up there to visit for the day, thought about the various modules they offer which appeal to me etc.

i'll admit that i'm still considering reapplying, but i know that going to my current firm choice university would be just fine, and a really good experience. although it's possible for me to end up with the necessary 3As at A level, and perhaps a desireable aea mark (plus a wider reading, knowledge and understanding compared to when i first applied), i've got a similar bunch of gcse results and i suspect that they might always be a factor in making an application slightly harder.

another thing though is that wherever you study, you'll have access to the same wealth of books (maybe applies more for my subject, english, though) and general writings. come university i get the feeling that there's a great element of self-teaching which might be needed. furthermore, if people do have the deep interests, great passions and lifetime fascinations about the subject of which they talk about in their personal statement, then they should be able to excel at their chosen subject at pretty much whatever uni. teaching and facilities might be marginally better at oxbridge, but there should be nothing in the way to prevent someone who is really into their subject from putting in 3 years of hard work and enthusiasm, to come out with a respectable degree elsewhere.

Reply 12

perkyDani

If you really have your heart set on cambridge and you know you have a good chance of getting in next year, esp if you get good step results, you should definitely reapply.
going to a place you dont feel commited to could have a real impact on your studying, you'll always be wondering what if ....
i know some1 who reapplied second year for history at oxford and got in, she didnt even hav anything extra to show the second year ( apart from good A levels) but she just felt so confident she was good enough to get in and that she had been really unlucky the first year

Reply 13

Ticki

You could always see how you do on results day and, if you get straight As and good STEP results, pull out and try again. If you really want to go to Cambridge it's worth a shot, especially as you came close last time round. My friend reapplied to a different college when no-one took him out of the pool and now he's on course to get a 1st, so pooling is no reflection of ability. If you know in your heart of hearts that you won't be happy if you don't try again, why not? The one thing to bear in mind is that you'll have to pay top-up fees if you apply again next year, and that will make things a bit more expensive.

Reply 14

Madelyn

I was fairly sure even before I applied that I wouldn't bother re-applying if I got decent offers from other universities, but if you really feel that your time at another university, maybe even the rest of your life, will be spent thinking "what if...?", then you ought to try again. Maybe start now by asking admissions tutors at possible colleges what they'd think about a gap year, make sure you can find yourself something useful to do with it (you could always try offering to help out with maths classes at your school), and wait for results. Maybe make a sort of deal - 'if I get 1,2 or above I'll re-apply, if not I won't'.

Reply 15

Jenny...

<<About everyone having the grades, that's probably for true most subjects, but STEP is something particular to maths offers that most candidates can't be entirely confident of getting (I hear about half fail to meet their offer, usually 1,2). So as H&E says, good grades in this (1,1, fingers crossed) would give me some kind of edge. Whether it would be enough to make up for poor GCSEs and B in chemistry I can't say.>>

Sorry I just had to pick up on the point about your GCSE's - poor? I dont think so 3A*, 6A's and 2B's is not poor, even by Oxbridges standards, I got 3A* 5A's, 2B's and 2C's (double science ick!) and I got into Clare to read history. I'm not saying that alone proves GCSE's are not important because they obviously are, but only in consideration with other factors. For example there were 48 people interviewed for history in my year (2004) and 7 of us got places so its very likely that a good number of the people who didnt get offers got better GCSE grades than I did. I still maintain it is the interview that is the deciding factor (also stressed by my senior tutor at the open days) If you want to reply go for it, but I just wouldnt apply to the same college for the same subject, good luck in whatever you do :smile:

Reply 16

H&E

Urgh. Why do people assume their individual experiences are representative of the entire system? Interviews are nothing like "the deciding factor". Sometimes they are, but equally often they won't be (and I can pull out senior/admissions tutors who've said that, too). I know personally at least two people rejected on account of their grades.

I agree, though, that for someone who'll have A level and STEP results to worry about GCSE's is ridiculous.

Reply 17

Jenny...

H&E

I'm not assuming that, but theres nothing we can really do apart from give our individual experiences and those of others, sometimes making generalisations. I dont pretend to understand the exact intricacies of the admissions process (who does?!) but I think interviews are very important as grades are becoming less distinguishable, most people will have or are predicted at least 3 A's at A level and will have 'good' GCSEs. Maybe I should say that interviews are a better distinguishing factor as opposed to deciding factor because of more and more people meeting the requirements.

Reply 18

Calvin

Well the way I see it you've got three opposing things to consider:

You might not get in again. Do you want to apply again, when that could mean you get rejected again? Does getting in to Cambridge really matter that much to you?- Would you enjoy a gap year? It is a long time. I gapped and didn't do anything particularly special and that year and a month is a long time to wait if you just want to be at Uni whether you get a place or not.

You will have your grades when applying this time. That's a big plus if those grades are good. Your DoS can look at the grades you have and know you can do the subject. If he gives you an offer it's unconditional, and you'll definitely make it. That puts you a long way ahead of somebody who is applying without grades. Plus you have that extra maturity and confidence. I think its a lot easier to do well in interview with the confidence that you have the grades and have covered more of the subject than everybody applying with you.

A year out, particularly with maths, you forget a lot. If you do I would strongly encourage you to do something mathematical job wise. From what I've heard from Mathmo friends Cambridge don't like you taking a year out with maths, you forget a lot. A gap year might look bad unless you have done something very constructive and mathematical with it. Having said that, Clare is pretty typical and if they say they don't mind gap year students maybe other colleges don't either. But I would still thoroughly recommend doing something mathematical. It shows dedication to the subject and enthusiasm and such. If you do something mathsy in your gap year that could be a big plus for you over other candidates. If you don't I would think it would be a minus.

You need to think about these things and obviously take a look at the grades you get. If you don't get the grades it's obviously a moot point. Did you get any feedback from the interview? GCSEs matter a whole lot less when you've got your A-level grades. And they are a whole lot easier to explain away at interview when you can point to A-level grades to show you're doing so well now.
So take some time and think about it and get some idea of what you plan to do depending on possible different grades you could get. You need to act pretty sharpish if you want to ditch your offer to another Uni so decide now/before grade day.
If you get the grades I personally think your chances of getting in this time are much better than last so long as you can do something with your year out. Clare is awesome (Clare! Ra ra ra!), Pembroke is lovely too.

Good luck either way tho'

Reply 19

khil

Is going to Cambridge really that important to you though? - and if it's gonna matter less the next time if you get rejected, why are you reapplying? You'll be taking an extra year out - which is bad for Maths - and add on top-up fees. And of course, Cambridge may reject you again. In the end is Cambridge worth it?

I personally wouldn't reapply - like you say, Notts is probably gonna grow on you anyway. Are the courses the same eg they both Maths? If they are, then there isn't really much problem really.

Come Nottingham it's a fantastic uni! :biggrin: