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BNP: Ethically British?

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Teaddict

This is interesting.

IF they have an opinion (that most disagree with) they should be rigorously challenged... Okay then, anyone who thinks black people born in Britain are British should be rigorously challenged as well?

No?

Though I believe citizenship is not a ethnic concept, I still find the anti-BNP bias hilarious, because it is often from the people who claim to love free speech, then condemn the BNP for using their right of free speech.

Ahh the confusion. You can have free speech if you don't say this... not very free is it?

It is perfectly fine to allow freedom of speech, its also perfectly fine to condemn anything you feel is unjust.

Reply 41

Teaddict

jaggedspike

It is perfectly fine to allow freedom of speech, its also perfectly fine to condemn anything you feel is unjust.

I agree.
But it does not happen like that.

Reply 42

xelarose

Ethically or Ethnically British? Because I am confused about which one you mean.

Personally, I think Ethnically British is somebody who was born on British soil and embraces our traditions and values. They dont have to have had parent's born here, or be indiginously white, they dont have to be somebody who is Christian. thats just ridiculous and not a true reflection of the world we live in today. They can be anybody really!

Ethically is another thing altogether. I think to be Ethically British its to obtain the moral's and ethic's we British people as a majority, uphold. I think its ethically British say, to be polite to strangers, to be able to lend a helping hand to somebody who is a little less well off than us, to believe in freedom and speech and justice and fight for them whenever they are at risk of abuse from others. Ethically British is about the need to prosper and grow, whether that be economically or morally.

Sorry about the long speech :p:

But, thats just my opinion anyhow :smile:

Reply 43

Tetrahydro

effofex

Presumably most Iranians are white but most Pakistanis are not.

I'm not a fan of delineating people by skin complexion anyway.

I said "light skinned caucasian" not light skinned European; Iranians are caucasians... I don't understand why you're debating against me with my own logic.

I am not white, perhaps you should re-read what I've said in this thread.

Reply 44

effofex

Are we talking about ethics or ethnicity here?!?!?!

Reply 45

rlw31

croissantfever

Ashley Cole has a white british mother and a black barbadan father. Surely he is as ethnically British as he is ethnically Barbadan?

This.

Reply 46

Dalimyr

Posts by (and replies to the posts of) a certain white supremacist troll who's now been perm banned have been removed from this thread, which was a substantial number of posts from the thread. Apologies if some discussions/arguments don't make a lot of sense if you're just reading through this for the first time; that's probably the reason why :smile:

Reply 47

ithink

4G_dollars

I am British. But I am not English. Where is Preston based? I am English.

got nout to do with geography, being born in japan wouldn't make me japanese :P aparrantly there are about 90 million ethnicly english people world wide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people#English_ethnicity

Reply 48

vroom9

Teaddict

My issue was with the challenging of views. It is seemed to be perfectly acceptable to challenge the views of the BNP, but unacceptable to challenge the views of liberals whether it is over immigration, or climate change.

Who cares about the freedom of speech views of the BNP. Just because they may not believe in freedom of speech, doesn't mean we should suspend them that right.

I would say that the BNP are more often victims of ad hominem - because the BNP said it, they are wrong - it is fairly common.

This is something I also find interesting how can you be far right and socialist? The further right you go, the more free market they become until suddenly they become socialist? Doesn't add up.

The BNP are not far right... there economic policies make that exceptionally clear.

You can say the same about challenging conservative views.

The BNP will only tailor their economic policies in a populist manner to gain the biggest support from different sections. I just consider national socialism to encompass the worst parts of both far sides of the spectrum. It is clear that they are authoritarian, socially intrusive and ethnocentric, the hallmarks of the far right.

They have chosen their views, if some people find them abhorrent then so be it. If someone agrees with one policy, they may not agree with another BNP policy. A legitimate party should not resort to ad hominem attacks, it justs shows their lack of intellect if anything.

Of course people should care about the political views of the BNP. Few are trying to suspend them that right, the only way to defeat them is to out argue them, but whenever people try the BNP attacks them with ad hominems and start conspiracy theories.

Reply 49

L i b

IceDiveFresh

By the same token I could say that you are 'just plain wrong'. Firstly Britain is a collection of countries. Each country within it has an 'ethnic' group.

To say that he is not ethnically English, Scottish etc. as the guy above has talked about perhaps but British is a civic identity which has only existed since the formation of Great Britain.

What a load of bull-****. Frankly I'm sick of this racial classification of Englishness (something which, incidentally, does not happen in Scotland) where it seems perfectly reasonable to a great many people to suggest that a coloured person cannot be English. What absolute rot.

The formation of Great Britain? When was that? When it became a noticeable island, or when the ice-ages ended and the few strips of remaining land linking it with the continent disappeared? :rolleyes:

Reply 50

Silly_Wabbit

croissantfever

Ashley Cole has a white british mother and a black barbadan father. Surely he is as ethnically British as he is ethnically Barbadan?

This... Labeling someone who is 50% "ethnically British" as not "ethnically British" wasn't really a smart move.

Reply 51

jackhewitt92

ethically british- if the BNP share the values and the beliefs of the general population of the UK (which they don't given there inherent hatred of everything not white and with a name that sounds even remotely polish) then yes they are. Ethnically, there is no such thing as British- there are the gingers (celtic race- same as Irish), Anglo-saxons and aryans (i.e. Germans and blondes) and then the indian/black/ immigrants over last 50 years. If only we actuallt knew what ethnicallt british was outside of not polish or darker than the reply icon

Reply 52

KayK

Errr..Why are people making something simple so confusing?

Reply 53

jackhewitt92

racism (more specifically xenophobia) dressed in politics by humpty dumpty in a suit isn't simple

Reply 54

nolongerhearthemusic

L i b

What a load of bull-****. Frankly I'm sick of this racial classification of Englishness (something which, incidentally, does not happen in Scotland) where it seems perfectly reasonable to a great many people to suggest that a coloured person cannot be English. What absolute rot.

The formation of Great Britain? When was that? When it became a noticeable island, or when the ice-ages ended and the few strips of remaining land linking it with the continent disappeared? :rolleyes:

Erm...

Reply 55

effofex

nolongerhearthemusic

Erm...

Albinos only group maybe?

Reply 56

effofex

jackhewitt92

Aryans tend to have black hair (not blonde hair). Most live in Iran.

Reply 57

missbrowneyes

Ladies Man

Ethnicity and Citizenship are completely different.

Black or Asians or whatever living in this country are NOT ethnically British, yet they may well be be a full British citizen.

You can't just make a blanket statement with that though, because then how does this apply to people who have mixed heritage but appear black?
..Also people with mixed African heritage who appear white?I dont think its always that black and white with ethnicity( pun intended hehe :biggrin:

)

Reply 58

gm15

Tetrahydro

The people of Wales, Cornwall and Scotland are quite genetically different to the English. The English, to varying degress, are descended from Brythonic Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Normans, Jutes and Frisians and are mainly of Germanic stock. Conversely, the Welsh, Cornish and Scottish are generally of purely Celtic stock. The English are more closely related to the Dutch, Germans, and even Scandinavians, than to the Welsh and Scottish.

Look where the celts originated from (yellow bit)

Also

Further confusion has resulted from the designation of the Celts as a racial group. To the Greeks and Romans, the Celts were tall, muscular, and light-skinned, but it is believed that these were qualities of the Celt warriors rather than Celts in general. The term Celtic is actually a cultural one, unrelated to physical heredity. It implies a cultural tradition maintained through many centuries of common history in the same general area.

(the free dictionary.com)

Reply 59

missbrowneyes

Good Apollo

You're so cocksure, yet you still fail to provide any evidence at all. I'm beginning to suspect a troll here.

In that case I've misunderstood your usage of the word "assimilate". I presumed you meant interbreed. If you in fact meant "allow them to be defined as a part of our ethnicity", then yes, I don't think Ashley Cole can be assimilated into the British ethnicity, purely because he is not genetically part of the British ethnicity any more than he is genetically a native American.