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Pilot/Airport Work Experience

Hello all (:
I'm in year 10 and need to find work experience so that I can leave school for 2 weeks and see what the working life's like. ;p

I've started my pilot's training and i'm really into it. So I was wondering what I could do for work experience in the North East (Newcastle,Blyth,Cramlington etc.) I've tried Newcastle airport, but due to security measures they aren't accepting anyone :/

Maybe you know some airlines that take on work experience?

Any help's greatly appreciated. :biggrin:

Join RAF cadet?

joeofc

Hello all (:
I'm in year 10 and need to find work experience so that I can leave school for 2 weeks and see what the working life's like. ;p

I've started my pilot's training and i'm really into it. So I was wondering what I could do for work experience in the North East (Newcastle,Blyth,Cramlington etc.) I've tried Newcastle airport, but due to security measures they aren't accepting anyone :/

Maybe you know some airlines that take on work experience?

Any help's greatly appreciated. :biggrin:

could you tell me a bit about pilot training please? I'm gonna finish uni in june and i wanna get into pilot training. I've applied to CTC wings for funding but other than that i don't know any other routes into it.

Cheers mate :smile:

Reply 3

Drewski

19

You're going to be hard-pressed to find anything with any of the bigger companies/airports because of the security constraints.

Your best bet is to go to wherever it is you're doing PPL training and ask them, or see if they've got contacts.

Reply 4

Drewski

19

blue_shift86

could you tell me a bit about pilot training please? I'm gonna finish uni in june and i wanna get into pilot training. I've applied to CTC wings for funding but other than that i don't know any other routes into it.

Cheers mate :smile:

He's in yr10, do you really think he's doing anything other than a self-funded NPPL?

Reply 5

blue_shift86

Drewski

He's in yr10, do you really think he's doing anything other than a self-funded NPPL?

i don't know about pilot training enough to know what those to are but i don't think you should belittle him because he is in year 10 - that's just arrogant and the world needs less of that.

Reply 6

Drewski

19

I'm not belittling him in the slightest, just putting it into perspective.

CTC Wings is a professional organisation which takes people on as a full time job, moves them to New Zealand and trains them up to airline standard before passing them onto an airline.

An NPPL is available to anyone who's got cash and fancies being an amateur pilot in their spare time.

If you're the one who wants to do it professionally you should be doing an awful lot more research than you are if you want to be going into it in June.

Reply 7

cion91

I'm from Newcastle and have an ambition to become an airline pilot in the future. I wrote to Newcastle Airport around this time in 2006 and received a standard 'no, due to security measures'.

However, I wasn't satisfied with the no, especially as it was just from their customer service/marketing department.

I therefore wrote to the Air Traffic Control director at the airport and managed to gain a 2 afternoons work experience.

However, as previously stated this was in 2006. The industry was expanding and security wasn't as tight then. With the recent increase in terrorism threat and the government wanting to step up on security at airports, I'd imagine that it will be very difficult to get work experience at the airport! It's also worth mentioning that in 2006 the old control tower was used closer to the terminal building. Today, the new tower is located at the other end of the airfield so it may be harder to get there because of security.

Good luck!

EDIT: Also, I wrote to just about every airline and they were a no too due to security. Flybe said they do offer work experiance but only at the hub in Exeter, which is often booked months in advance.

Reply 8

joeofc

OP

2

Drewski

An NPPL is available to anyone who's got cash and fancies being an amateur pilot in their spare time.

but after that, i'm going on to do my CPL then flying instructor and so on :smile:

blue_shift86

I've applied to CTC wings for funding but other than that i don't know any other routes into it.

well, since i'm 14 i can't go away full time so i'm just taking the modular route, where i'll get one license after another so that i build up hours; instead of going off for how many months and just learning to fly, because the airlines want to spend as little time as possible training you up and gain hours. :wink:

cion91

I therefore wrote to the Air Traffic Control director at the airport and managed to gain a 2 afternoons work experience.

any chance you still have or know where to find the ATC director's address? ;D

cheers (:

Reply 9

Michel Foucault

10

blue_shift86

i don't know about pilot training enough to know what those to are but i don't think you should belittle him because he is in year 10 - that's just arrogant and the world needs less of that.

I'll give you some advice - don't don't don't don't get involved with CTC Wings (or any of the other major FTO's offering fully integrated flying training that seems too good to be true - because it is).

Have you seen the terms and conditions of the CTC/Easyjet deal? Quite frankly they're appalling, and the only other alternative you're likely to have is paying Ryanair and Brookfields £30,000 for a type rating (on top of what you invest in getting an ATPL in the first place), then working for them for peanuts on a limited contract that puts you at their absolute beck and call, and probably won't even get renewed.

Besides that, nobody is hiring. The job market has grinded to a halt, and there are next to no flying jobs available - particularly not for "fresh out of Oxford/FTE/CTC/etc." 200 hr pilots.

I would get a decent job with your degree, and try and save some money whilst you work that in the hope that the job market picks up in a few years' time. The fact that so many young people are pumping tens of thousands of pounds (often to the tune of a remortgaged house for mum and dad - how would you feel about that being liable should you not be able to repay the massive debts you will incur?) into the courses and getting nothing but stress and unemployment out of it, yet the schools and companies still continue to promote them, shows exactly how much of a conscience they have.

/rant

Reply 10

Michel Foucault

10

joeofc

but after that, i'm going on to do my CPL then flying instructor and so on :smile:

well, since i'm 14 i can't go away full time so i'm just taking the modular route, where i'll get one license after another so that i build up hours; instead of going off for how many months and just learning to fly, because the airlines want to spend as little time as possible training you up and gain hours. :wink:

any chance you still have or know where to find the ATC director's address? ;D

cheers (:

Much of what I wrote above applies to you also, albeit brought back slightly.

If I were in your position, at your age, and I really really wanted to fly for a living my plan would be this:
a) Work my arse off at my GCSEs and A-Levels
b) Put any form of flying training on the back burner for now; frankly, PPL training at your age isn't going to help you, but it will cost you time and money that could be better spent elsewhere. Besides that, (if they were recruiting this is) most of the major airlines prefer candidates who have undergone integrated training with a major organisation than modular training. However, as there are no jobs as I said above, even integrated candidates are finding no employment.
c) Join the Air Training Corps - you will get to fly as a part of the ATC for next to nothing, and if you stick at it, you can get Gliding and Flying Scholarships. It will also teach you valuable life skills such as teamwork and leadership, and will give you a taster of the military lifestyle which, if you have the right qualities, might be something to consider.
d) Go to a good university and get a degree in a worthwhile subject. This will give you a valuable fall-back and a source of income in the (highly likely) event that it takes several years for your flying career to "take off".

Reply 11

cion91

joeofc

any chance you still have or know where to find the ATC director's address? ;D

cheers (:

It's just the airport's address. His name was Chris Davis if I remember rightly, he's head of operations. Just address it to him and the air traffic control department! Good luck.

Reply 12

joeofc

OP

2

dbazza lmfao you just shoot yourself in the foot. saying 200hours isn't going to get you a job, whereas the modular route gets your hours built up. and yes, i'm working my arse off at GCSE. and i think you're forgetting i'm in year 10, so when i'm finished in education, i'll have x amount of hours and the airline market should of picked up. so really, it is worth starting now, and im not really wasting money by building hours up?

and ahh thanks, i'll write to him to see if I can get anything. :biggrin:

Reply 13

Michel Foucault

10

blue_shift86

Dbazza, **** you. i'll do what i want so stop trying to put me off. I tried office work and it sucks. I do random stuff and it's MY life so i don't care whether you think it's worthwhile or not cos my happiness matters to me and not to you so i wouldn't really expect you to understand, haha!

As for the pilot thing, i wanna try it cos i don't like the idea of investment banking/actuarial science/teahcing/fireman/police officer, AND rock climbing instructors don't get paid enough. Being an airline pilot has a good balance between wages and adrenaline! :biggrin:

- it's worth it for that. I mean even if i don't get a job as a pilot it'd be a fab experience :smile:

- as for the cost, i hear ctc pays the full 70k and i'd nee 10k residential, so i don't see why my parents would need to remortgage their house.....

Do what you like people - RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE!

I think you need to do a bit more research into the CTC Wings Cadetship scheme in that case. You have to put down a loan of £69,000 before you start training, which you will be required to pay back to whatever bank you borrow it from. There's no such thing as a free lunch, especially not in an industry which has hit rock bottom and is, by all accounts, still digging.

There's no need for the rudeness - I'm not trying to put you off, I'm just trying to open your eyes to the fact that there are so many young people who have recently undertaken schemes at CTC and the other major FTOs which, yes have got them ATPL, and yes, it probably was a fab experience, but they are now sitting at home with extortionate amount of debts to pay, and an ATPL which is being put to no use because they can't get a flying job because there are none available! In fact it is costing them more money to keep their licenses and ratings current, so that they haven't lapsed in case the job market does pick up - so it's a vicious cycle.

If you honestly don't believe me, then have a look here and at some of the responses from experienced pilots here. As well as that section of PPRuNe in general.

There's no need to say "**** you" when I'm giving you advice in your best interests - I'm not trying to shoot you down, I'm trying to open your eyes.

Oh and edited to add: re. the "wages and adrenaline" comment. I'm not sure what romantic notion you hold of the salaries and T&Cs that airlines such as Easyjet and Ryanair offer, but they are basically paying peanuts and offering jack **** in the way of employee consideration. And I'm pretty sure the "adrenaline factor" (which is questionable anyway) would be outweighed by the worry of not knowing whether you were going to be working for the airline (and hence, paying off those huge debts) from one day to the next.

Reply 14

Michel Foucault

10

joeofc

dbazza lmfao you just shoot yourself in the foot. saying 200hours isn't going to get you a job, whereas the modular route gets your hours built up. and yes, i'm working my arse off at GCSE. and i think you're forgetting i'm in year 10, so when i'm finished in education, i'll have x amount of hours and the airline market should of picked up. so really, it is worth starting now, and im not really wasting money by building hours up?

and ahh thanks, i'll write to him to see if I can get anything. :biggrin:

Yes, the modular route gets your hours built up...but you will likely have the same amount of hours, because the cost between the two options roughly equates, so unless you're going to get ~£60,000 to get you the 200-odd hours which you need to accrue for an ATPL and then however many more ££££s you want to spend on sim and multi-engine hours to build your total up (because they're the only surplus hours that will be worth anything to an airline - they won't particularly give a **** about how many hours you've got as PIC a Cessna 172 if all you've got by way of multi-engine and sim experience is the same as everyone else). If you do some research into the astronomical costs of hour-building in a jet sim or a ME turboprop, I think you will see how financially impractical it is on top of the £60-70k you already have to shell out. Unless of course your dad is Lakshmi Mittal or Phillip Green.

And it's no use saying the market should have picked up when what you're gambling on that should is a sum of money not far off six figures. And I don't mean this in a patronising way, but do you really know enough about the airline job market to know why it should have picked up by then? Or are you just hoping...

Reply 15

joeofc

OP

2

mainly hoping. but now we're officially out of the recession, in a few years time the market should start to pick up, with a few new airlines here and there. and there's always jobs. it's just a matter of wanting and needing.

Reply 16

pug

8

Dbazza, some excellent advice there.

One thing i would pick at though is what you say about the modular route. There are many airlines who prefer the modular 'self improver' route, and many others who dont care where you trained, as it shows you have motivation and a bit of gumption. Doing the modular route allows you to pay as you go and work in another job to fund it.

The worst position you could possibly be in is that of people like blue_shift86 whome, with the attitude displayed, will never get a job in an airline. I can say that with experience of people like you! He was trying to help so heed his advice.

The only way Intergrated is a good route into flying is if a job is guaranteed at the end of training. I mean a job where you DONT have to pay for the type rating and you will start on a good wage in a stable job! Those circumstances are pretty much zero at the moment and are unlikely to pick back up for many years if ever :frown:

One thing to point out is that banks have stopped offering the unsecured loan to students embarking on the intergrated FTO training. Students are now offered a loan which must be secured on a property, this just goes to show how much confidence there is in these cadets getting a job post-training!

blue_shift86 and others, get a grip and take off those rose tinted specs.. With wreckless attitudes like yours you will be already despised in the aviation industry, and it is a close knit family!

Reply 17

pug

8

i hear ctc pays the full 70k and i'd nee 10k residential

Are you realy that stupid? If you think CTC pays the course (they are the training provider) then who gives CTC the money?

mainly hoping. but now we're officially out of the recession, in a few years time the market should start to pick up, with a few new airlines here and there. and there's always jobs. it's just a matter of wanting and needing.

Tell that to all of those pilots out of work in the UK now, i believe well over 1500 Atpl holders (unfrozen) plus the hundreds if not thousands of unemployed cadets...

That is a very inconsiderate thing to say, though due to your age i will put it down to naivety.

Reply 18

Tomm_UK

4

blue_shift86

Dbazza, **** you. i'll do what i want so stop trying to put me off.

You have zero chance of becoming a pilot with an attitude like that. You also have no idea what you are talking about and therefore no idea what you would be letting yourself in for.

Do some research and stop being a pratt or keep dreaming. Your shout.

joeofc - There's been some good advice dished out here, you're very young and so that is an advantage to you. Start working on those licenses, get your hours and ratings up, that's the best thing you can do for the moment!

Reply 19

blue_shift86

CTC website is gay...just goes on that i need to raise a bond but say's i'll found out how much and what that is after i've applied. I mean wtf? Any one know what they're on about?

P.S. sorry about the earlier rudeness - i was kinda hyper/angry a few days ago.

link here: http://www.ctcwings.com/europe/cadets/finance.asp

Pilot/Airport Work Experience

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