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Faith schools shouldn't receive government funding

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    The UK is meant to be a secular, multicultural society, so why are religious schools funded by the government?

    Faith schools encourage segregation and exclusion. They are allowed to promote the idea that sex outside marriage and homosexuality are wrong; the government is supposed to be working to discourage homophobic attitudes. They are allowed to select pupils (and staff) based on religion; one of the best primary schools in my area was a Catholic school, but I couldn't have gone there even if my parents wanted me to. My mum is a teacher and has been unsuccessful in applying for jobs at several RC primary schools, all of which hired a Catholic teacher instead.

    If parents want their kids to get a religious education then they should be able to go private pay for it themselves, but it's not fair to spend taxpayers' money on something many of us are denied access to anyway.
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    Personally, I don't think that private schools or religious schools should be allowed.

    You don't deserve an unfair advantage due to your beliefs.

    You don't deserve an unfair advantage due to your parents' salaries.

    You don't deserve an unfair advantage due to your postcode.

    I think state schools, with lottery allocated places determining which school (Though obviously if two people want to swap places, they can) would be the fairest system.

    In my opinion, it would also increase the levels of tolerance of people of different faiths and backgrounds, as children would be exposed to other children of different ethnicities to themselves from a very early age. This would help dispel the fear/lack of understanding of other cultures.

    If you disagree, please say why, and which points you don't believe are correct.
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    I do see what you mean, and my first thought was 'yep, true'. But then, i think it would sound awful if the government stopped funding religious schools. It would seem like a direct action against religion in Britain or something. Well, that's how religious people would see, i can't imagine them being very happy.
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    I went to a catholic school despite being Christian. RE was of course compulsory, but my catholic school is now known as a catholic science college. We're classed as a faith school, and have a large catchment area. We are the best secondary school in the area, obviously not including the grammar school. If we didn't have government spending, we wouldn't have such good results.

    I was never taught to be homophobic, or any if what you've been saying, only I was taught religious things obviously as I did RE.

    Also, many people are religious, and had they gone to a normal school or college, they may have been bullied, especially if they are full on believers and need a chaple for prayer etc. The only difference between my school and other schools I can see is that we celebrate religious holidays. Themed assemblies where communion is given wouldn't be possible in non faith schools.. Parents probably wouldn't allow it

    I think we have to allow a minimum % of non Catholics in.
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    (Original post by drukarale)
    Personally, I don't think that private schools or religious schools should be allowed.

    You don't deserve an unfair advantage due to your beliefs.

    You don't deserve an unfair advantage due to your parents' salaries.

    You don't deserve an unfair advantage due to your postcode.

    I think state schools, with lottery allocated places determining which school (Though obviously if two people want to swap places, they can) would be the fairest system.

    In my opinion, it would also increase the levels of tolerance of people of different faiths and backgrounds, as children would be exposed to other children of different ethnicities to themselves from a very early age. This would help dispel the fear/lack of understanding of other cultures.

    If you disagree, please say why, and which points you don't believe are correct.
    People should have the right to spend their own money on their children's education if they want to. That's their own decision.

    Catchment areas are there for a reason - to make sure the right number of children attend each school and to provide a fair way of regulating who can and can't go to certain schools. Your "lottery" idea wouldn't work; people would end up having to travel miles across cities to go to a school they had been randomly placed in, and what would happen if friends and siblings were allocated to different schools? The level of authoritarianism you're talking about is pretty scary.
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    Since when has Britain been secular?
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    (Original post by AnythingButChardonnay)
    Since when has Britain been secular?
    Ditto. It's wishful thinking amongst common youth these days.

    However, living in the city, it does appear to be. Well, diversity at least.
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    this is going to just turn into an antiprivate school rant but meh ill add my 2cents anyway.

    Religious schools have to offer places to the community aswell as people from their own religion if you werent good enough to compete for one of these places than so be it. The government should bring back a system of grammer school so the best can achieve regardless of income, social class (housing), race or relgion. While providing a foundation education to everyone
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    (Original post by JoshC)
    I went to a catholic school despite being Christian. RE was of course compulsory, but my catholic school is now known as a catholic science college. We're classed as a faith school, and have a large catchment area. We are the best secondary school in the area, obviously not including the grammar school. If we didn't have government spending, we wouldn't have such good results.
    Good results come from quality of teaching, not from the amount of funding a school receives. Lower-achieving schools tend to receive more funding than high-achieving ones anyway. The fact that you're the best secondary school in the area just proves my point - it's not fair that some people aren't allowed access to this just because of their religion. If I lived in your area I wouldn't be allowed to go to your school. Yes, they take some non-Catholic students, but Catholics get first choice.

    (Original post by JoshC)
    Also, many people are religious, and had they gone to a normal school or college, they may have been bullied, especially if they are full on believers and need a chaple for prayer etc. The only difference between my school and other schools I can see is that we celebrate religious holidays. Themed assemblies where communion is given wouldn't be possible in non faith schools.. Parents probably wouldn't allow it
    I went to a "normal" comprehensive where loads of people were religious, I can't think of anybody who was ever bullied because of their beliefs. We things like had designated prayer rooms during Ramadan and religious groups for people who wanted to attend them. But the fact that there were pupils of all religions (and none) meant that we didn't get the kind of segregation you get with faith schools. We were taught about various religious views and beliefs and if parents didn't wanted their kids exposed to that then they could request for them to be taken out of RE lessons.

    Religion and education don't have to be connected - you can practice and learn about religion outside of school.
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    Again, wasn't really a problem untill Islam came along.....

    Then Muslim schools in Britain started poisoning young minds and teaching Islamic supremacy, and that Jews were "apes and pigs," as reported by Newsnight:


    and.......


    This is where the segregation is coming from. Wasn't a problem before, but now, to be fair and even handed, all faith schools are facing scrutiny, even though some of them have excellent academic results.
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    I go to a catholic school.
    Religion isn't forced upon us. RE does tell us that contraception is against the church etc., but they don't force us to believe it. The same goes with homosexuality.

    And as has been said. Britain isn't a secular country. If people want to put their children in a Catholic or other faith school, why shouldn't that be funded? And it's not like faith schools are entirely consisted of children from that faith. There is a mix.

    In the news recently: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...primary-school
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    (Original post by AnythingButChardonnay)
    Since when has Britain been secular?
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...od/3518375.stm
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    (Original post by drukarale)
    Personally, I don't think that private schools or religious schools should be allowed.

    You don't deserve an unfair advantage due to your beliefs.

    You don't deserve an unfair advantage due to your parents' salaries.

    You don't deserve an unfair advantage due to your postcode.

    I think state schools, with lottery allocated places determining which school (Though obviously if two people want to swap places, they can) would be the fairest system.

    In my opinion, it would also increase the levels of tolerance of people of different faiths and backgrounds, as children would be exposed to other children of different ethnicities to themselves from a very early age. This would help dispel the fear/lack of understanding of other cultures.

    If you disagree, please say why, and which points you don't believe are correct.
    Everything.

    1.) We should have private and religious schools. People should have the choice to pay extra to put their child in a school of their choice. Also, the parents are still paying tax, some of which will end up in the education budget, for which their child wont need

    2.) Unfair advantage because of your beliefs??! What do you mean? Not many companies are going to sit you down in an interview and say "omg you went to a muslim school! You're now the CEO!!"

    3.) So you think that all state schools are the same? And that if we all went to state schools we'd come out all on an exactly equal level? Get real!!!!! I went to school in winchester, followed by state 6th form. Now you compare the average marks from winchester state schools with others in the country, and you'll find that winchester is easily up there with some of the better marks. You'll still get postcode lottery with state schools, and invariably, the people with larger salaries will have the more influential pull.

    4.) A lottery system makes no allowance for talent. At least with schools chosen by parents, they can choose to put Johnny in a school where his exception physics talent could be put to good use, where in a lottery system, he may miss out on a place at a better state school, and end up in a chav filled hell hole.

    Im guessing i know which type of school you went to, based on your communist rose tinted ideas.... :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by MaceyThe)
    Again, wasn't really a problem untill Islam came along.....

    Then Muslim schools in Britain started poisoning young minds and teaching Islamic supremacy, and that Jews were "apes and pigs," as reported by Newsnight:


    and.......


    This is where the segregation is coming from. Wasn't a problem before, but now, to be fair and even handed, all faith schools are facing scrutiny, even though some of them have excellent academic results.
    how much do you hate Islam?
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    (Original post by loki276)
    how much do you hate Islam?
    Not nearly as much as Islam hates me!! And you, unless you're Muslim?!
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    http://www.parliament.uk/actofunion/...c/01_exemp.jpg

    We may, according to some survey, be "more secular" than Saudi Arabia, but that doesn't change the law.
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    A "secular" society and "multicultural" society are pretty much the antithesis of one another. One only permits religious expression in private (e.g. France) whilst the other freely permits religious expression and religious diversity (e.g. Britain). In an ideal world, we wouldn't have private schools nor would we have faith schools, because they are divisive and unfair. Thing is, private schools and faith schools are cheaper for the government to run and yet usually get better grades because of private funding. In the long run, faith schools cut your tax bill and are fantastic value for money.
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    (Original post by MaceyThe)
    Not nearly as much as Islam hates me!! And you, unless you're Muslim?!
    Seeing as I am Muslim and I don't hate you your argument fails
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    (Original post by JW92)
    A "secular" society and "multicultural" society are pretty much the antithesis of one another. One only permits religious expression in private (e.g. France) whilst the other freely permits religious expression and religious diversity (e.g. Britain). In an ideal world, we wouldn't have private schools nor would we have faith schools, because they are divisive and unfair. Thing is, private schools and faith schools are cheaper for the government to run and yet usually get better grades because of private funding. In the long run, faith schools cut your tax bill and are fantastic value for money.
    Faith schools only get better grades because they choose the best applicants

    also faith schools cant discriminate on religion, if you do get discriminated on religion take them to court its there for a reason
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    (Original post by moregano)
    Good results come from quality of teaching, not from the amount of funding a school receives. Lower-achieving schools tend to receive more funding than high-achieving ones anyway. The fact that you're the best secondary school in the area just proves my point - it's not fair that some people aren't allowed access to this just because of their religion. If I lived in your area I wouldn't be allowed to go to your school. Yes, they take some non-Catholic students, but Catholics get first choice.


    I went to a "normal" comprehensive where loads of people were religious, I can't think of anybody who was ever bullied because of their beliefs. We things like had designated prayer rooms during Ramadan and religious groups for people who wanted to attend them. But the fact that there were pupils of all religions (and none) meant that we didn't get the kind of segregation you get with faith schools. We were taught about various religious views and beliefs and if parents didn't wanted their kids exposed to that then they could request for them to be taken out of RE lessons.

    Religion and education don't have to be connected - you can practice and learn about religion outside of school.
    Without government spending we would have to rely on external sources of funding. We already have to pay for transport costs ourselves which is one of the changes made a few years ago. It costs about £200 per child which many parents struggle to find.

    Maybe you think that you wouldn't get considered for a place but did you actually try? It alright saying that you can't get a place but if you never tried then you can't moan. Yes, you mentioned about a parent not getting a job, or someone did, and they didn't get it, had you ever thought that the people who got the job were actually, just possibly, better qualified, rather than your excuse that they were catholic? Not only that but maybe they offered other things such as understanding the religions of the kids and can help with other areas in the school.

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