[The Blind Monk]

I'm about 170cm (5 foot 6ish) 145(67kg) or so with a bit more body fat than I like (visible abs but still...)
Bench 85
Squat 110 (I'm flat footed, bow legged and have a lack of collagen...squats are not a strong point...)
Deadlift 155 now (knees playing up...severely limits my DL volume)
Front Squat 90
Chinup BW+20x3
Dip BW+30x3
Close Grip Snatch 50
Clean 65
Press 60
Incline Dumbell 36x5
Flat Dumbell 38x8
Dumbell Rows 40x10

I train on a rough template of

Monday:
snatch-press, clean-press, clean-pushpress
Sumo Deadlift work up to max set of 5-8+1-3 (RP)
Preacher Curl machine (1 drop set from 8ish downwards)

Wednesday
Incline Dumbell Bench/Power Dumbell Row superset (work up to max for 4-10 reps then drop down the rack)
Chinup/Dip superset
Lateral Raises

Friday
Front Squats
Sumo Leg Press
Bench Press/Weighted Chin superset

I tend to work up in doubles in 2.5-5-10 kilo jumps depending on the excercise to the maximum amount I can do without grinding for most excercises unless otherwise stated.

I'm experimenting with cardio for fat loss/work capacity purposes because mine is absolutely atrocious.

Currently employing a finisher of:
Swings (ladder 1-10 left and right sided)+BW squats (two ladders of 1-10)..

Today's workout wasn't great: not enough sleep and whatnot. Diet has also been bad for the past couple of days
Snatch and Press
20x3 25x3 30x3 35x3 40x3 45x3 50x2
Clean and Double Press
55x2
Clean and Push Press
60x3
Sumo Deadlift
60x2 80x2 100x2 120x2 145x2 (bad, bad day. Last week I got 140x6+1)
the ladder outline above. 16kg/bw

[RawJoh1]

What are you training for, out of interet? (eg. Are you training for a sport?) Are the bench squat and dead numbers for one rep?

Anyway, will be reading.

[The Blind Monk]

Yeah they're 1RMs. I just like lifting heavy to be honest. I'd do a powerlifting meet if it were convenient after I hit at least 2/3/4 plates in bench, squat and dead respectively but I'm not that fussed. I just want to get stronger.

I clearly need clinical help on the other hand. I have no idea why I thought it would be smart to do a 2 a day or what I ended up doing...

Rack pull (1'' above knee)
20x3 60x3 80x3 100x3 110x3 120x3 140x3 150x3 160x2 170x2 180x2 190x2 200x1 160x6
Bench
20x5 30x5 40x3 50x3 60x3 65x3 70x3
Incline from deadstop pins
70x1 65x1
Chinups
BW+10 3x3

[Chumbaniya]

What do you mean by snatch and press? Once you've snatched, you're kind of done and there's no further you can go from there.

[The Blind Monk]

For the purposes of that, I use a clean grip to snatch. You snatch less weight but that isn't actually the point. It's just supposed to be a way to get some progressive pulling in. As I reach a point where it's not going to happen, I just switch to a better leveraged style. So close grip snatch, clean, deadlift. I'd high pull in between but my high pull isn't too much higher than my clean.

[The Blind Monk]

Not a good day overall. But nice workout
Bench
20x3 30x3 40x2 50x2 60x2 62.5x2 65x2 67.5x2 70x2 72.5x2 75x2 77.5x2 80x2 82.5x2 85x2 (failed on 3rd) 75x3
Superset with Chinese power row (basically a Kroc Row focusing on explosiveness but without the bench with the hand on thigh)
22x3,3,3 28x3,3,3 32x3,3,3 36x3,3,3 38x3,3,3 40x3,3,3
L-sit chins
BWx6,6,6
Front Squats
20x3 30x2 40x2 50x2 60x2 62.5x2 etc till 80x2
Back Squats
80x2 85x2 90x2 95x2 100x2
Preacher Machine curls
Drop set going for the pump from about 40kg
Yes, cue jokes about the preacher bench.

[Khanage]

Whats the theory behind doing 11 sets on the bench..?

[SMed]

(Original post by The Blind Monk)
For the purposes of that, I use a clean grip to snatch. You snatch less weight but that isn't actually the point. It's just supposed to be a way to get some progressive pulling in. As I reach a point where it's not going to happen, I just switch to a better leveraged style. So close grip snatch, clean, deadlift. I'd high pull in between but my high pull isn't too much higher than my clean.

I'm still confused, what is a snatch and press? How can you press after the snatch? Are you snatching, then dropping the weight to a rack position and then pressing with a snatch grip?

Or do you mean a snatch-grip press? (press with a very wide grip)

If not, do you have a video of a snatch-press?

[The Blind Monk]

If I remember, I'll take a video next time I'm in the gym. I am doing snatches with a shoulder width grip, the same sort of grip width that I'd do a clean with. So I end up in the same position at the top as if I were clean and pressing/jerking. Therefore I can simply do a press at the top of every snatch.
http://stacktv.stack.com/video.aspx?...3591909001_470
This video shows what I'm talking about. I just do a press in between every rep.

(Original post by Khanage)
Whats the theory behind doing 11 sets on the bench..?

I have to admit that this isn't exactly...orthodox. I read about it on t-nation (ok, laugh away...) It was just Christian Thibadeau describing micro ramping. Basically, I think it's a rather easier way for me to get in the volume than a more traditional set/rep scheme. That and I like how pretty much every set ends up feeling lighter than the one before until about 75-80, which is a very high% of my 1RM. I usually slow down way before that: I have no clue whether Thib's scientific basis for it makes any sense whatsoever, but I've certainly found it more enjoyable than the 5x5 stuff I was doing before. Has it worked any better? Sod knows, haven't been doing this for long enough to find out, apart from on the bench where I went past 80kg for the first time.

[cowsforsale]

God that looks like a lot of volume...

[SMed]

(Original post by The Blind Monk)
If I remember, I'll take a video next time I'm in the gym. I am doing snatches with a shoulder width grip, the same sort of grip width that I'd do a clean with. So I end up in the same position at the top as if I were clean and pressing/jerking. Therefore I can simply do a press at the top of every snatch.
http://stacktv.stack.com/video.aspx?...3591909001_470
This video shows what I'm talking about. I just do a press in between every rep.

Aw, so you snatch it overhead with a clean-grip, then lower down to your shoulders and press it back up again, and then drop it to the floor or hang it down and repeat?

[The Blind Monk]

(Original post by SMed)
Aw, so you snatch it overhead with a clean-grip, then lower down to your shoulders and press it back up again, and then drop it to the floor or hang it down and repeat?

I generally do my snatches and cleans from blocks (a squat with the pins set just above knee level) or from hang. So I'll generally just let it hang down before going for my next rep.

It sounds like a lot of volume but it honestly doesn't feel like it. I take very little rest per set and each set is pretty easy apart from the last 1 or 2. That's the point of the system I believe.

[SMed]

But how are you pressing during the snatch? There is no press during the snatch and no snatch during the press. I'm still not sure what you mean by snatch-press, you haven't been clear here (or I'm exceptionally thick). I've asked specifically what you mean, and I've asked questions with options for you to choose from to answer me, yet you still haven't answered or given specifics.

Are you really a PS helper?

[The Blind Monk]

Yes, I'm seriously a PS helper. I think I do a moderately good job. Nothing on someone like apoftea but I don't have a masters either.

The snatch is done from hang with a shoulder width (clean) grip. When my arms are fully extended above my head, I lower the bar to my shoulders and then extend them again (press.) I then return the bar to the hang position. So you were correct in post 11 of this thread.

(Original post by SMed)
I'm still confused, what is a snatch and press? How can you press after the snatch? Are you snatching, then dropping the weight to a rack position and then pressing with a snatch grip?

Or do you mean a snatch-grip press? (press with a very wide grip)

I told you I use a clean grip, which is not the same as the snatch grip i.e. I am not doing a wide grip press

[Chumbaniya]

I'm really confused about your set/rep scheme here. I don't understand what value doing so many short sets of increasing weight can have. It's not a case of focusing on explosive power for shorter light sets, because you work up to weights that are heavy for you, it's not a case of doing higher volume at lighter weights because you're only doing 2 reps at each weight, and it's not a case of doing heavy doubles because working up to it so slowly and doing 2 reps every 2.5kg for about 20kg will mean you're too tired to be doing doubles close to your max. It just strikes me as the sort of system under which it's incredibly difficult to make progress or measure it, if this is the system you're going with every session. If you're doing this on the bench from 60kg to 80kg, say, you have to ask yourself what the set at 70kg is doing for you? With a 3x5 scheme, if you take away a set you're taking away a serious working set, whereas taking away the 70kg set in my example has no discernible effect (in fact, it will leave you with a little more energy for the heavier sets) so I can't understand why it (or most of the intermediate sets) would be done in the first place.

[The Blind Monk]

I believe the idea that was outlined is called the force spectrum. Basically to work on producing as much force as possible over the spectrum. It would work if I weren't an idiot and tried to push things like the 85kg bench, everything else was pretty fast and involved no grinding at all really. It is a pretty heavy double because that equals my best 1RM and gets within 90% for Front Squats (back squatting is another story)

I'm just using the micro ramping of 2.5kg increases to get in a lot of volume at a relatively high % of my 1RM as my previous training had much, much less of that as I normally lift in a fairly conventional manner albeit probably with much less volume than nearly everyone but the largest HIT zealot.

[SMed]

(Original post by The Blind Monk)
Yes, I'm seriously a PS helper. I think I do a moderately good job. Nothing on someone like apoftea but I don't have a masters either.

The snatch is done from hang with a shoulder width (clean) grip. When my arms are fully extended above my head, I lower the bar to my shoulders and then extend them again (press.) I then return the bar to the hang position. So you were correct in post 11 of this thread.


I told you I use a clean grip, which is not the same as the snatch grip i.e. I am not doing a wide grip press

Perfect, now I understand fully.

[Chumbaniya]

(Original post by The Blind Monk)
I believe the idea that was outlined is called the force spectrum. Basically to work on producing as much force as possible over the spectrum.

I'm pretty sceptical about this. Force over a spectrum? What does that actually mean in terms of developing strength?

I'm just using the micro ramping of 2.5kg increases to get in a lot of volume at a relatively high % of my 1RM as my previous training had much, much less of that as I normally lift in a fairly conventional manner albeit probably with much less volume than nearly everyone but the largest HIT zealot.

When you look at your routine, there's not actually that much done at a high percentage of your one rep max because most of your volume is done at low weights for low reps. With your bench, doubles at 80kg or above are going to be pretty heavy for you, but anything below 75kg or so is light enough that you could just keep doing doubles all day long. Even if you just did a warm up and 3x3 at 82.5kg, that strikes me as more quality heavy work getting done overall.

Sorry if I seem overly critical, but it's a routine which doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me (though I'm far from the most experienced or knowledgeable on this board) and when it comes to someone who obviously has a good training ethic beyond "I want swole t-shirt guns to impress dem girlz" I'd like to either be able to learn from something new they're doing or help them improve how they're training.

[The Blind Monk]

Excuse the ad copy. But this is a copy of what was actually written on t-nation
http://strengthfreakz.wordpress.com/...an-thibaudeau/
Then I also added some 'micro-ramping' hence the 2.5 vs 5 kilo jumps. The reason for simply wanting to get in more volume is found in books like Pavel's Power to the People/Beyond Bodybuilding. Basically I tend to get stronger when I do a moderate volume of work in the 70-85% range. I just go beyond that because I'm well...an idiot in the gym.

My normal method of training might be described as basically ramp up to 70% of max. Work up in 5kg increments (for bench) till just before the point I start grinding on the 5th rep of the set. Then do 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps followed by a rep out at c.80% of the working weight. Nothing particularly complicated. This is just variation to me and it seems to be doing something useful (although that may simply be because it is different.)

I will be making some changes to this, but that's mainly because of some stuff I've read regarding the Dave Tate project and much higher reps. I could do with the change anyways as I haven't done 20+ reps for months.

[Chumbaniya]

Seems a bit hyperbolic for my liking - all this stuff about how it blows every other form of training out of the water and the "perfect" rep seems to distract from the basic idea, which doesn't seem too solid. It's a form of training which appears to be reliant on the trainee understanding what all the subjective stuff he talks about means for their bodies, and especially for someone not hugely experienced it's far more productive in my opinion to be dealing with objective factors like correct technique and a defined rep/set system when you're trying to prescribe a one-size-fits-all system. After all, if you tell most trainees to do what feels best for them, they're going to go for feeling the burn rather than real growth.

That stuff about letting the weight freefall slightly at the turnaround seems pretty suspect too. It's probably not too much of a problem when it comes to benching, but he's got to be kidding if he expects people to drop down at the bottom of a squat and catch the weight on the way back up - that's just a way to injure your back.